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Lordedaw
Group 2 winner
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 am Posts: 761 Location: Warwickshire
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Re: NH distance issues
simpleminds wrote: Please I give Ettrick Mill a rating of 136 after its debut win in a maiden Martin then ran it in a Group race and won I think a Rating of 150 was kind of kind and lenient Don't you Stu now I mostly give 140 as a benchmark for Maiden races be a 2m or 4m race sometimes it gets more when winning by 10 lengths Josh . Now Paul's Horse Lets nip this in the bin rating it fell on debut which give it a automatic Rating of 110 he then ran second in a handicap before winning a Moore's Qualifier before winning the National I don't remember what it went up for winning the national but it gone from 110 to 144 winning two Handicaps you cant put the horse up more than its got just because it won the National every trainer should know or learn how to protect your horses rating Paul in my Opinion has done that if it had not Fallen on debut this may not be a problem if their is one which its not Gray Like I said before the handicapping isn't really the issue. I quite often handicap a race myself just for interest and I can see exactly why you give the rating you do. In fact they are usually pretty much the same. The big problem is that the high rating eliminates the opportunity to run the horse anywhere else that is suitable mainly due to the distance qualfs and the fact that most G3 jump races are handicaps. Imagine the hoo ha if that was the case on the flat where Coigach was rated too highly to get in the Doncaster Cup. This means you are in effect one horse light on your stable. If you are going to handicap long distance horses at 140+ then there has to be races in the schedule that they are eligible to run in almost on a weekly basis.. Thats the issue I am highlighting. At the moment 4m+ winners rated highly are effectively disqualified from running every week !
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:50 pm |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2348
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Re: NH distance issues
Mine was a 3.2m Martin, he can go welsh as he has not had two runs, least that’s what I understand, so does not have a best distance yet. According to my trials he does not even get on the board against my 3.2m horses and is at his best 3.4m to 3.6m. I will now have to test that again following his debut.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:01 pm |
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pjrhodes1970
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 pm Posts: 15167 Location: Republic of Ireland
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Re: NH distance issues
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:07 pm |
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Lordedaw
Group 2 winner
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 am Posts: 761 Location: Warwickshire
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Re: NH distance issues
Githyanki wrote: Mine was a 3.2m Martin, he can go welsh as he has not had two runs, least that’s what I understand, so does not have a best distance yet. According to my trials he does not even get on the board against my 3.2m horses and is at his best 3.4m to 3.6m. I will now have to test that again following his debut. Sorry assumed it was the long distance race as you mentioned National handicapping. Even so the point still stands that a horse deemed to have run best in a 4m2f race is unfairly treated when compared to a horse deemed to have run best in a 4 miler when in all likelihood they are similar horses who are in to be aimed at the same sort of races anyway.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:10 pm |
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ghostzapper74
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am Posts: 4112 Location: Wales
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Re: NH distance issues
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:14 pm |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2348
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Re: NH distance issues
Never said he does not stay to 4.2m, if he had been as average as planned he would have gone to the national getting weight, that plan is somewhat scuppered.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:18 pm |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2348
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Re: NH distance issues
Anyho going back to trialing before the misus comes home, can’t do any damage there
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:19 pm |
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ghostzapper74
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am Posts: 4112 Location: Wales
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Re: NH distance issues
Githyanki wrote: Anyho going back to trialing before the misus comes home, can’t do any damage there No wonder u killing it, u already onto next season. I'm still taking pictures of mine and having a look at them
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:22 pm |
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pjrhodes1970
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 pm Posts: 15167 Location: Republic of Ireland
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Re: NH distance issues
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:24 pm |
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Githyanki
Group 1 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:16 pm Posts: 2348
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Re: NH distance issues
I can neither confirm or deny the rumours that I am working on my jump team. Though after this week I really need to spend more time on flat.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:31 pm |
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ghostzapper74
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am Posts: 4112 Location: Wales
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Re: NH distance issues
Githyanki wrote: I can neither confirm or deny the rumours that I am working on my jump team. Though after this week I really need to spend more time on flat. Well I've had a spy in u camp and they told me unless u flat horses are jumping fences then they must be jumpers.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:38 pm |
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Taunton
Group 3 winner
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:20 pm Posts: 524 Location: Norway
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Re: NH distance issues
Lordedaw wrote: My opinion on the NH is that we have to take into account quite a few people struggle with all the terminology, qualifications process, eligibility etc as they may not follow NH racing or not even have it in their homeland.
I would propose 3 very simple and straight forward changes to make everything better for all.
1. Distance rules for handicaps 4f either side with an upper limit of 3m 4F
2. All Novices races to be 4 or 5yo only. With either every other race to be open to all or open horses to be 6yo + whatever the majority decide. The main reasoning behind this is that a lot of people get confused about what they can run in and in truth the Novice system doesn't work in a league where the majority of horses only run for one season.
3. Either do away with NHF as they are usually won by 1m flat horses anyway or not start them until after the window and allow only horses that haven't won a hurdle or chase race to enter.
Those three simple changes would all make things easier, more exciting and I think would encourage more people to partake as in truth the NH is where people are more likely to have some success initially. I like this suggestion. I cant seem to get to grips with the novice/juvenile thing even though I actually follow the hunt in the UK and Ireland irl . And if novices are horses that have not won it seems a bit artificial in the league. And how come the Grand National became open for five year olds? Good discussion by the way.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:52 pm |
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Anadin
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:20 am Posts: 1059 Location: Spain
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Re: NH distance issues
follis86 wrote: Anadin wrote: Oooh....Controversy Its the same old adage between realism and the league, there is many things we follow to add realism and then, many things we follow because its a game. The GN in my opinion is one race we should follow a little more of the realism not necessarily what suits the game, 5yo's for a start, I am sorry James but you made a mockery of the GN two years ago, although all our fault for allowing 5yo's to enter. I banged on about this age thing, but of course many were happy as 5yo's suit their breeding programmes better, which I understand. (we don't allow any other age changes to such important races, at least I do not think so. Lets have 4yo's in the Derby ) If you win a maiden and get rated 150/155 I do not see how Cafe De London is only rated 144 (sorry Paul) for winning the big one I'm pretty sure it won off 9'st 12lbs last year (both 2nd & 3rd giving it at least a stone, horses that were rated on maiden runs or one win over 4m) IMO, Cafe De London cannot be rated lower than a maiden winning horse whether a new entry or not, If it won off 110 and has to go up 40lbs then so be it (you either want realism or game-ability, realism it would not of been allowed to enter, game-ability it has to be rated the top 4m horse) It should be rated better than any other 4m horse that season, full stop! If 144 is the top horse then we cant go giving 150 to maiden winners, can we ? If I say something stupid now or in the future, it’s better to be able to point out, that the stupidity is mine, and mine alone. It wasn't me Stu, it was James Shea. As if I could win the national Thought the same, as I knew know one would think it was you .... hahahaha.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 pm |
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Anadin
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:20 am Posts: 1059 Location: Spain
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Re: NH distance issues
You've got me thinking about Shergar.... night time raid coming up on Pauls' stable (and I'll bloody ride it off the cliff )
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:08 pm |
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Wannabe
Group 2 winner
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:22 pm Posts: 739 Location: Fife, Scotland
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Re: NH distance issues
Lordedaw wrote: 2. All Novices races to be 4 or 5yo only. With either every other race to be open to all or open horses to be 6yo + whatever the majority decide. The main reasoning behind this is that a lot of people get confused about what they can run in and in truth the Novice system doesn't work in a league where the majority of horses only run for one season.
I don't have a problem with novice races being limited to 4 or 5yo but for me personally, if the age limit was raised to 6yo for other races, my horses would not be so competetive over 2m or 2m 4f as the horses all peak at 5yo and start to decline as 6yo due to a them having a high deteriation potential. My longer distance horses are all 8yo, so an age increase would not effect them. As far as National horses go, I don't think they should be allowed in 3m 4f races. I have just uploaded a new National horse as the previous horse I uploaded was too high in the handicap. I think as the rules stand, if I run him in a maiden over 4m in his first race he is eligible to run his next race over 3m 2f. This race would be totally the wrong distance for him and he would probably not go up in the handicap and may even come down in the handicap. I think that the schedule should be altered so that there are more 4m+ races that all levels of horses can enter and any National horse should run 3 times in 4m+ races.
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:54 pm |
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