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 Weekly Reaction 
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Handicapper

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:59 pm
Posts: 307
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
Hi everyone, I hope u all had a few winners this week. Just reading this before I have to go see someone else but one thing that could be brought in over jumps is u horse can only be a chaser or hurdler, I think it would slightly even the playing field out over jumps. It's odd to me that u could have a group 1 winning chaser running off ratings like 120 over hurdles. One thing that could be brought in on the flat is if u win a group 1 u can only run in group 1 and all maiden winners have a rating of 125 so most of the best horses never get near to a rating of 110 for the h'caps and lowering some of the h'caps. So no h'caps are over 110. I think some of the jump h'caps could be looked at so only the top few races are 0-160 h'caps . At this moment over jumps u can win a group1 race and still enter lots of h'caps. I think everyone should still enter all the horses for all races until the end of the season because it's the last one and look at these things for SO7.


Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 am
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 am
Posts: 2399
Location: South Australia
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
ghosty wrote:
Hi everyone, I hope u all had a few winners this week. Just reading this before I have to go see someone else but one thing that could be brought in over jumps is u horse can only be a chaser or hurdler, I think it would slightly even the playing field out over jumps. It's odd to me that u could have a group 1 winning chaser running off ratings like 120 over hurdles. One thing that could be brought in on the flat is if u win a group 1 u can only run in group 1 and all maiden winners have a rating of 125 so most of the best horses never get near to a rating of 110 for the h'caps and lowering some of the h'caps. So no h'caps are over 110. I think some of the jump h'caps could be looked at so only the top few races are 0-160 h'caps . At this moment over jumps u can win a group1 race and still enter lots of h'caps. I think everyone should still enter all the horses for all races until the end of the season because it's the last one and look at these things for SO7.


How about instead of having a chase and hurdle rating there is just one rating and each horse is eligible to run in either after it's first start in a non handicap race?

I don't agree with if your horse wins a G1 then it can't run in G2 or 3 races - I think Jango's thoughts of having G2 and 3 handicaps would work better but as I mentioned above - other races would need to be cut to make room. (I'm not saying all G2 and 3 races are replaced by Aussie G2/3 hcps but maybe one or two each week)

All maiden winners are rated 125 is an interesting thought and should be debated.


Fri May 10, 2019 10:52 am
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Handicapper

Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:20 pm
Posts: 496
Location: Norway
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
Lo and behold, my hors won a Bumper. That has never happened to me before. I am almost more thrilled by that than winning my G1 last week :lol:

Well done all winners and placers, and 22v18 between Josh and Paul in the cup, you are in a league of your own and both deserved to go through.

Thanks again to the team!


Fri May 10, 2019 11:23 am
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 am
Posts: 558
Location: Warwickshire
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
John's idea of uploading either as a chaser or a hurdler and having to stick to it would get my vote. If that wasn't possible or popular then just one rating for both chase and hurdle would be the second best (and possibly easiest solution).

Personally I don't think there is much wrong with the way people enter NH horses apart from the flitting between chase and hurdle which isn't a widespread thing in reality. I would also do away with the NH flat races as they are just the same horses racing each other week after week. The hunter chases have been a huge success although I think maybe we are getting too many qualify for them this season. Maybe drop them a few pounds. My horse Bonnechere River that Stu was complaining about won a hunter a couple of weeks ago and managed to win one again this week so maybe he should have been a bit higher in hcap for longer. I am sure no one wants to see any horses or trainers dominate the hunters. Also a low grade hurdle series would be good too.

As for the flat well that is impossible to police because we don't have the same considerations as in real life. For example in real life G1 horses don't run every week whereas some handicappers do so the balance is a bit skew whiff as we try to accommodate all the worlds G1s but not all the worlds hcaps. Horses don't run in English and Irish guineas then Royal Ascot and then shoot off to Kranji and Australia for a couple of weeks before popping back for Goodwood. Also in real life a top trainer/owner wouldn't run a G1 winner in a G2 or 3 unless they really had to because of the potential loss in stud value if it got turned over. So really there is not much that can be done about it.

As for field sizes well again I have no real issue with small fields as that is quite realistic. The huge ones are another matter. I have said for ages it isn't difficult to implement the correct maximum field size per track. I even volunteered to collate it. If max field was added to race name in noms page/TOM then people could see by looking at card whether they would be eliminated or not and move elsewhere. Also could we not have a sticky thread where people could post an alternative race option if balloted out. May add a bit of extra work on decs day but possibly worth it, especially if someone was to help Gray. Another option would be to split some races. The bonus races are not the same number every week so it could be quite easy if Race 24 had 29 in to split it in half and make the second half Race 37 or something.

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Fri May 10, 2019 1:18 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:49 am
Posts: 325
Location: torquay . devon
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
i think almost every trainer would like to be top trainer
we all love the game and want the best horses
all that breeding and trials and you think you got some great horses but ran terrible in the league .. thats what make me moan lol Stu
John Josh and Paul are there to be beat :)
anyway another great week for me with 6 winners
Lee Meg wins i think my first time winner 3 in a row a personal record for me
i did make a few errors by putting horses in wrong distances as i heard Martin say
if my horse is not in a race i still watch the race but skip to 3 furlongs from home
if my horse is in the race I HAVE TO WATCH IT because those 3 Stooges :lol: Marin Stu and Doug my great comments and fun to listen to
well done all winners and places and all trainers
great comms which never let us down
thank you all staff for running this league
and Stu its Jim Murry not Jim morgan :D
which i hope Leon and Jim return
shall i carry on typing ... nooooooooooooooooooo
Del


Fri May 10, 2019 1:37 pm
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:37 pm
Posts: 885
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
Lordedaw wrote:
John's idea of uploading either as a chaser or a hurdler and having to stick to it would get my vote. If that wasn't possible or popular then just one rating for both chase and hurdle would be the second best (and possibly easiest solution).

Personally I don't think there is much wrong with the way people enter NH horses apart from the flitting between chase and hurdle which isn't a widespread thing in reality. I would also do away with the NH flat races as they are just the same horses racing each other week after week. The hunter chases have been a huge success although I think maybe we are getting too many qualify for them this season. Maybe drop them a few pounds. My horse Bonnechere River that Stu was complaining about won a hunter a couple of weeks ago and managed to win one again this week so maybe he should have been a bit higher in hcap for longer. I am sure no one wants to see any horses or trainers dominate the hunters. Also a low grade hurdle series would be good too.

As for the flat well that is impossible to police because we don't have the same considerations as in real life. For example in real life G1 horses don't run every week whereas some handicappers do so the balance is a bit skew whiff as we try to accommodate all the worlds G1s but not all the worlds hcaps. Horses don't run in English and Irish guineas then Royal Ascot and then shoot off to Kranji and Australia for a couple of weeks before popping back for Goodwood. Also in real life a top trainer/owner wouldn't run a G1 winner in a G2 or 3 unless they really had to because of the potential loss in stud value if it got turned over. So really there is not much that can be done about it.

As for field sizes well again I have no real issue with small fields as that is quite realistic. The huge ones are another matter. I have said for ages it isn't difficult to implement the correct maximum field size per track. I even volunteered to collate it. If max field was added to race name in noms page/TOM then people could see by looking at card whether they would be eliminated or not and move elsewhere. Also could we not have a sticky thread where people could post an alternative race option if balloted out. May add a bit of extra work on decs day but possibly worth it, especially if someone was to help Gray. Another option would be to split some races. The bonus races are not the same number every week so it could be quite easy if Race 24 had 29 in to split it in half and make the second half Race 37 or something.


Completely agree with all of Martins comments especially about low grades handicap hurdles. As a low tier trainer my hurdlers are almost always running out of the handicap whereas my chases normally find suitable races.

Also there is nothing worse than seeing your horse drawn 25 on the AW. You immediately know it’ll finish towards the back and lose interest in the race.


Sat May 11, 2019 7:06 am
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Group 1 winner

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 am
Posts: 2399
Location: South Australia
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
Quote:
Completely agree with all of Martins comments especially about low grades handicap hurdles. As a low tier trainer my hurdlers are almost always running out of the handicap whereas my chases normally find suitable races. Also there is nothing worse than seeing your horse drawn 25 on the AW. You immediately know it’ll finish towards the back and lose interest in the race.


Yep, I agree as well - especially the AW comment.


Sat May 11, 2019 2:35 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:22 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Fife, Scotland
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
I think the NH could do with a little tweaking. I agree that there should be more h'cap races with lower limits especially hurdles races.

The problem is what races do you cut from the schedule to make way so that both low level and higher level trainers are not disadvantaged. If more races are added without cutting some races the work of the handicapper and the race runners becomes harder.

I brought this up before and was shot down in flames, but here goes again. Last week, week 8, there was 4 x G1 races for novices with an average field size of 6. I think there are only about 4 h'cap novice races in the whole season. Maybe it is because some trainers don't upload novice horses or don't grasp the idea of novices when they upload. There was also a couple of other novice races last week with slightly bigger fields but they were run of even weights so were in effect just more group races.

I know getting rid of all novice races is not the answer or a popular idea but change some to h'cap races and maybe educate trainers on the difference between a novice horse and an open horse and maybe give more guidance on the mix of horses to upload.

For example, I upload 4 x 16f hurdlers, 2 novices and 2 open race horses. I do the same for chasers. I then repeat this for 20f and 24f horses. This makes a total of 24 horses. The other 6 horses could be one NH flat horse, one Juvenile and 4 longer distance horses. Making a total of 30 horses.

Eliminating NH flat races was mentioned, these are all run of even weights so are in effect G1 races. I would not get rid of these races but I would handicap these horses and then run some flat h'cap races.

Apart from one h'cap race in the schedule, Juveniles races are in effect group races. Do we need more h'cap juvenile races to give lower tier trainers more incentive.

I am not in favour of only having one handicap for a horse. This season I have two returning horses who were hurdlers last season but are good chasers a season later. Also, the reason trainers flit from hurdles to chase and vice versa is because there are no suitable races for their horses and a trainer just wants to see their horse running. Some weeks there may be 3 races over fences and no race over hurdles at a specific distance or vice versa.


Sat May 11, 2019 6:53 pm
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Group 1 winner

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 am
Posts: 2399
Location: South Australia
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
In real life I understand the point of novice races but in the game?

Personally (and I know this wont happen) I'd make one rating that covers hurdles and chase - I'd scrap having a novice stable but keep the races in name only so any horse from your hunt stable can enter them. I would also scrap the bumper as well.

I think we have room to add a couple of low rated hurdle races each week and I am one of those trainers that doesn't bother uploading novice horses. As a lower rated trainer I cannot see the point in doing so.


Sun May 12, 2019 4:33 am
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:22 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Fife, Scotland
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
NPG319 wrote:
In real life I understand the point of novice races but in the game?

Personally (and I know this wont happen) I'd make one rating that covers hurdles and chase - I'd scrap having a novice stable but keep the races in name only so any horse from your hunt stable can enter them. I would also scrap the bumper as well.

I think we have room to add a couple of low rated hurdle races each week and I am one of those trainers that doesn't bother uploading novice horses. As a lower rated trainer I cannot see the point in doing so.


I think what you say is true for many lower tier trainers, at the moment Novice races are only competetive for the top end trainers. In the game it is possible for me to upload a 7yo novice horse who is better than my 5yo open horse. All my horses are bred the same, they are trialled the same in the CK, my best horse at a discipline is usually made an open horse and the 2nd best is made a novice but there is only a very small difference between them, they are only novices in name for the sake of the game.


Sun May 12, 2019 5:08 am
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 am
Posts: 2399
Location: South Australia
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
Quote:
I think what you say is true for many lower tier trainers, at the moment Novice races are only competitive for the top end trainers. In the game it is possible for me to upload a 7yo novice horse who is better than my 5yo open horse. All my horses are bred the same, they are trialled the same in the CK, my best horse at a discipline is usually made an open horse and the 2nd best is made a novice but there is only a very small difference between them, they are only novices in name for the sake of the game.


Yep, I worked that out two or three seasons ago.
All we can do is keep debating and keep tweaking and experimenting.
We've made quite a few changes to the league since the first SO6 season - the hunt is like the final frontier.


Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 am
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:56 pm
Posts: 5109
Location: uk
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
You can't have the same Rating for one Horse Chaser and Hurdler if trainers played the NH Game enough you would know what makes a great hurdler doesn't mean it will be a good chaser and vice versa look at SO7 in your Flat Game select a horse in your stable and you will see Comments about its Jumping ability Good, Average and poor any good jumper should be transferred and put into your jump game this will make sure you have good jumpers and don't transfer poor jumping ability this will hurt your jump breeding.


But back to one rating Cant be done and its also unfair I often switch my horses to get a mark for future weeks doesn't mean it has the same ability over both codes and many trainers in uk drop chasers back into hurdle races because its hurdle rating is lower and the horse may have improved with age, growing since its last race over hurdles.


I can see a point of more Novice Handicaps and lower Handicap Hurdles maybe a vary of trips for bumpers is better than Handicap Bumpers 1m 4f, 1m 5f many NHF races are run over this distance.

Gray

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Sun May 12, 2019 11:51 am
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 pm
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Location: Republic of Ireland
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
5 winners today 2 on the flat 3 over the sticks

Diamond
Failed to even place in the first 5 weeks now wins 2 in a row
Adding the Lowther stakes G2 to her win in the Molecombe Stakes G3
last week she will find the bridge up to G1 company too far but delighted
to get a G2 into her.

Commander Data
Won a G1 handicap very early on and has been very average since but
ran really well in the Great Voltigeur. not sure where he goes next as he'd
be 4th in the pecking order of my 1m4 horses.

Westminster Abbey
has taken 9 weeks to break his maiden tag which he has now done by
winning the Murphy Group Handicap Chase G3 a step up into open group
company will have to come next.

Neymar De Silva
Turning into a real little star came into this season as my No.2 3m5 Chaser
but has shown incredible distance adaptability here winning the Cotswold Chase G2
over 3 miles 1 furlong and now the Gold Cup has to come into contention for him he
is a beautiful jumper and his jumping won the race.

Dave Brailsford
His second win of the season won a novice race early on but now is a grade 2 winner after
taking the River Don Novices Hurdle he remains on course for the potato race at Cheltenham.


Huge thanks to the team appreciate the hard work and effort you all put in
Many Thanks to the commentators
well done to the winners and placers

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Wed May 15, 2019 4:48 am
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Post Re: Weekly Reaction
4 winners today 2 over the sticks and 2 on the flat

Armagedden
Becomes a multiple G1 winner adding the Nunthorpe G1 to
his Diamond Jubilee success showing great versatility . One
of the sprints at the Breeders Cup remains a big target.

Mickey Blue Eyes
YES at last he is off the mark at the 9th attempt been knocking
on the door all season and made all to win the March Stakes.
that just leaves me now with 4 winless horses 22 of the 26 flat
team have got off the mark.

Tower Of London
After 8 weeks of poor performances over hurdles decided to throw
him in over the fences and he bolts up in the Bobyjo Stakes G2. He
will have to go back hurdling though already have a strong team at
this distance but delighted he got off the mark at last & that leaves
me with just 6 winless horses 24 of the NHC team have now got off
the mark.

We Are Invincible
2nd win in handicap company winning the Royal Bath & West Handicap
He is not good enough for graded company so will have to continue in
handicaps.


Huge thanks to the team appreciate the hard work and effort you all put in
Many Thanks to the commentators
well done to the winners and placers

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Thu May 16, 2019 4:14 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:49 am
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Location: torquay . devon
Post Re: Weekly Reaction
Great week for me with 4 winners and 8 2nds and a few places
this week Prix De L'Arc De Triomphe last years winner with same ground heavy
problem is he drops to the back and runs in trouble but will stay on (Can He Do The Double)
thanx to the team and all trainers
and the comms are brilliant esp with Stu speaking many languages :lol:


Fri May 17, 2019 2:43 pm
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