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 WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance 
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
:shock: :shock: Ouch, I didn't think this would cause so much grief, I am sorry I asked.

Cant agree that a 0-110 handicap gives everyone a chance at a G1, just briefly looking through the results of the better 0-100/110's (not including AW or mad long distance stuff) we have had this season, 80% are won by the trainers who race and win Group races week in, week out.

So, really they are a handicap for the better trainers nothing more, there is enough G races/listed for these people to fight it out already!

Doug, I don't think Gray was belittling Oz racing at all, he had to pick one to try and appease us all. :wink:


Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:50 pm
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
simpleminds wrote:
We have a problem Houston I can see points all over the place last season all the Races was GIH and every race was won by Group Horses so it was decided to lower some to 0-110 this as now started another discussion and I suppose I can see Doug's Point we should run the races at the level they are graded.

Gray


But 5yo's shouldn't be in the National either but we allow that, so we have to adapt the grade's on flat races too.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:53 pm
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
I must admit, only in my opinion, if we are going to do these Aussie races in wk13 then we need them to be as close to reality as possible.

The lighting is one of, if not, the greatest 5f race in the world but it is a 0-85 handicap and still hold a purse of 370,000!!!

That is great for me but i think this race should be at least 1/10th of the prize money.

Maybe next year include these G1 international races, the big G1 handicaps, Doncaster, and some low level all weather racing.

Remember i am a low level trainer as well.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:42 pm
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Whilst I am all for making things more rewarding for more trainers, if we make big prize money and group races easier to acquire what's the motivation to improve? Just my 2p.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:46 pm
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
I would like to apologise to Gray if I came across too strong. I am sorry Gray!

To go back to my earlier point - the League has to decide if we are going to make this a global comp' or an English comp.
It would be easy to accommodate all major international G1s but what I will say will ruffle a lot of feathers!
There are too many minor English G1's been run in the League! They can be replaced by the International G1s.
Now I am only talking on the Flat - The Hunt is rightly so a GB, Ire and Europe comp!

That is why I posted the IFHR Top 100. I understand that John thinks their ratings are a crock but they are what they are and they are recognised though out the world by all the major Jockey/Turf/Dirt clubs.

Working off this list would make it transparent and easy to decide what G1 races to use. All G2 and G3 races can be English. I personally have no problems with that.

Australian Carnival - All G1s - Melb Cup 16f hcp. Lightning Stakes 5f. TJ Smith 6f. Caulfield Cup 12f hcp. Cox Plate 10f wfa. Golden Slipper 2yo 6f. Doncaster Hcp 8f. Australian Derby 12f 3yo.

These races really cover Australian racing. They also cover all major race distances and age groups for the League. Add in your NZ, SA and whoever - that'll give you approx. 15 G1s on the last day and approx. 20 other flat races to do whatever with.
We could name a heap of low grade hcp's to recognise G1 winners of the season while their names are still fresh in our minds and winning trainers and most improved trainers etc. and they can be raced on any track around the world.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:06 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
"Eleven countries comprise this year's list, representing the foremost racing events throughout the world across 35 different racecourses. Australia and the United States of America lead all countries with 23 total races a piece, followed by Great Britain (19), Japan (12), Hong Kong (11), France (7), United Arab Emirates (4), Ireland (3), Canada (1), Germany (1), and South Africa (1). Because of a six-way tie for the 99th spot on the list of Top 100 G1 races, the 2016 edition consists of 105 races"

When you divide these 105 races by 13 it equates to 8.076923 G1s each week.
None of the 105 races are 2yo races so those could easily be added and take it to 10 G1 races each week.
I think a global comp is more than do-able - even if we concede some of the G1s near the bottom of the Top 100 from USA, Australia and England to give a little breathing room to add G2 & 3 races plus Listed and then all the Handicap races through the grades.

Of course we should not break up the Ascot Carnival (as would happen if we stuck to the top 100). Australia has two major carnivals each year in the Autumn and then the Spring. And beside the Triple Crown, America would surely have a carnival or two each year (my apologies as I am not knowledgeable of American racing)
So maybe we can incorporate major carnivals into the League? Maybe we could add G2 & 3 races from those carnivals? Even run all the handicap races on those tracks over the carnivals?

It is all food for thought - but with SO7 on it's way, maybe now is the time to start thinking about embracing the new game and league and hopefully all the new trainers that come along.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:19 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Githyanki wrote:
Whilst I am all for making things more rewarding for more trainers, if we make big prize money and group races easier to acquire what's the motivation to improve? Just my 2p.


I would probably have to agree with Josh on this. Wk 13 is not a million miles away, the prize money just doesn't fit the races. However, the type of races is ok


Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:39 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Should it not be as simple as -

There is appx. 30 races a week on the flat.

9 Top (Group 1,2,3) 12 Mid (listed, 0-100/10) 9 Low (0-95 & below) and we incorporate what we can from festivals, international races into this.

The bonus races can pick up anything that would need to be added to complete an Ascot or International festival.

Realism is all well and good, but we have to be practical.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:43 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
I have no issue with breaking up the league schedule and creating an accurate representation of global flat racing what ever that may be, the main buzz for me is the challenge of racing other players horses not what the track looks like. I also do not have a major problem with the more defined high/mid and low options (though I think you may need more group races to ensure everyone gets most of their team out each week).

But whilst this is all fairly easy to say we are ultimately assuming those volunteering behind the scenes will commit the time and no small amount of effort to do it. Why not take this away and present back something that is more tangible, can be presented generally, discussed and agreed, making the end work more a matter of implementation than design?

Up to 3p now :)


Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:12 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Githyanki wrote:
But whilst this is all fairly easy to say we are ultimately assuming those volunteering behind the scenes will commit the time and no small amount of effort to do it. Why not take this away and present back something that is more tangible, can be presented generally, discussed and agreed, making the end work more a matter of implementation than design?

Up to 3p now :)



Your points & pennies are well spent Josh :)


Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:31 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Githyanki wrote:
I have no issue with breaking up the league schedule and creating an accurate representation of global flat racing what ever that may be, the main buzz for me is the challenge of racing other players horses not what the track looks like. I also do not have a major problem with the more defined high/mid and low options (though I think you may need more group races to ensure everyone gets most of their team out each week).

But whilst this is all fairly easy to say we are ultimately assuming those volunteering behind the scenes will commit the time and no small amount of effort to do it. Why not take this away and present back something that is more tangible, can be presented generally, discussed and agreed, making the end work more a matter of implementation than design?

Up to 3p now :)


I agree - the League has been great up to now but I think we need to look forward and to balance it out. Running 5yos in the National is just a small tweak - dropping a major G1 to 0-85, that's not on.
This is a conversation that we need to have. I think the race runners have all the tracks we need so there shouldn't be anything major to build. And next season can be the trial season. I hope those tracks can be transferred to SO7.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:51 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Anadin wrote:
Should it not be as simple as -

There is appx. 30 races a week on the flat.

9 Top (Group 1,2,3) 12 Mid (listed, 0-100/10) 9 Low (0-95 & below) and we incorporate what we can from festivals, international races into this.

The bonus races can pick up anything that would need to be added to complete an Ascot or International festival.

Realism is all well and good, but we have to be practical.


I believe it should be this easy - but we'd need Gray's word on the matter as I am just talking....Gray actually does the hands on stuff which as we know can be two different things.
I am more than happy and willing to assist with the Australian side of it all. I am more than happy to consult with Rod McClure and Scatters so it's just not one voice.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:56 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
You need to start the conversation because after this week the forum dies until the next season
seen it so many times before we get near the end of the season people start bringing things up and nothing is
done or talked about in the off season I am pretty sure we had the same conversation last year too need to
get concrete ideas now lads.

I think Gray needs to get a panel together who ever he wants to discuss this maybe a trainer from each tier

example

John - representing the top trainers
Sirius - representing the mid trainers
Doug - Representing the AW Championship trainers
Martin - representing Newbies

Just an idea so its not 1 single person coming up with a plan of attack

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:09 am
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
You need to start the conversation because after this week the forum dies until the next season
seen it so many times before we get near the end of the season people start bringing things up and nothing is
done or talked about in the off season I am pretty sure we had the same conversation last year too need to
get concrete ideas now lads.

I think Gray needs to get a panel together who ever he wants to discuss this maybe a trainer from each tier

example

John - representing the top trainers
Sirius - representing the mid trainers
Doug - Representing the AW Championship trainers
Martin - representing Newbies

Just an idea so its not 1 single person coming up with a plan of attack

\

Sounds good to me.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:05 pm
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Post Re: WEEK 13 Flat Big Race Changes At A Glance
Sounds good. I already have a few ideas as you have probably guessed and will try and post them asap. Bit busy at the moment.

Music lovers get on to youtube and watch last nights Toots and the Maytals gig at Leamington it was blinding. I had the great honour of watching the show in the company of Neville Staples (a fellow Coventrian) of The Specials. Great night.

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:10 pm
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