Not always Thunder , what if jim put in one of his sprinters as a pacemaker and that horse could take a horse a very long way and when its dropping back within the last 2 furlongs it causes trouble/takes one out. U could open a can of worms. And whats to stop u putting a group 1 sprinter as a pacemaker for a long distance horse, it makes the races unreal. Remember u can have a pacemaker in real life but it has to run on its merits.

Yeah, blimey you had a tough season when president Paul I remember, was that the hex'ingate year or the top trainers sending each others horses for breeding.... You never gave up mate well done...

Lets just crack on with it and see how it goes, lets not give Gray a headache, its a "basket" to run this league and he does surprisingly well only kidding Gray top stuff mate.

No issues with and this works well in the NH league, might need to tweak the schedule to make sure there is G2 at same distance when this happens other than that it should open up some races for other trainers. Anyway it was discussed and agreed upon last season.

As to losing trainers I have been around since SO2 and trainers always drop off towards the end of the games life span. Some will be back for SO7 as long as there no issues with the league starting

Yes you are right and can put a sprinter on a race but in it's next race you cant enter that pacemaker horse to another G1 race because it would be 20+ lengths behind in it's last race. Meaning it's rating would be too low to rerun it again as a pacemaker in another G1.

I run pacemaker on all my trials and they always finish dead last by 20+ lengths behind. Sirius or any other doing the ratings would not rate them highly for them to qualify again in another G1 race

Trainers would be wasting slot space for every pacemaker they upload. I guess it would be their choice if they want that route. It's still a waste of slots

Only time has agreed a unraced horse can run in Group 1 is week 1 as the Dubai Meeting was brought forward a week to include the new Aussie Carnivals again this was a positive as The winter Derby didn't go to a Top Trainer.

The Limit for Group 1 races was given 24 except Dubai, Derby, Oaks, and Breeders cup stayed at 16 Handicaps was 30 as before.

If we had 40 trainers and all 40 enter a horse in a group 1 the race would be to big that's why we have a limit in the end only the 16 highest Rated Horses by Different Trainers can race in the Derby 24 in the Guineas so I am sure the guys who have two entered would know if the two would actually be abled to run by Declarations and then would move them knowing that my low rated 80 gets a spot first and if your horse is drawn 16 of 16 in any group race will that's racing you cant choose where you get drawn.

Gray

You should be able to enter these now Paul.

Gray

I used to run pacemakers in all my races and they did finish about 20L back, but now I run a "race handy" horse as a pacemaker. It does not finish 20L back. I use the same "race handy" horses in races from 1m 2f up to 2m. Even in the 2m races they are not too far back as their normal distance is 1m 2f.

If there is a max field size of say 20 horses, the chances are not all the race slots would be filled, so even with a lower handicap rating there is a chance the horse would still qualify. Also, I suspect that a top trainers race handy horse would be better than a mid tier trainers best horse.

I am not in favour of having race handy\pacemakers, but they could be valid options under certain conditions in the league.


The last thing I want to do is cause problems for Gray and Leon. I think they do a wonderfull job and we couldn't have a league without them. We have a current set of rules for this season and we should stick to them, but that doesn't mean we can't change those rules in the future if the majority of trainers agree.

The rules will never please everyone but they are in place for this season.

That's where we differ, to me this is just a game and my object is to win as many races as possible and if I have a better chance of winning a G2 race than a G1 race, then I will opt for the G2 race. I think Josh said something similiar, it is not G1 wins or prize money, but wins that count.

If just 1 or 2 top trainers enter a G2 race, the chances are the mid tier trainers would not win the race.

How is a G1 more competetive when you have probably only 4 top trainers, with 2 horses each, in with a chance of winning. When I was a mid tier trainer back in the SO5 days, I had a filly finish 2nd in the guineas. I was absolutely chuffed to bits. It felt to me like I had won the race. Under this system, the chances of a mid tier trainer doing that are so small it is hardly worth thinking about.

I will chime in a bit later as I need to get my act together and head to my shop.

Just remember that none of these changes are set in stone. They are experiments to see if they fly or fall or need some tweaking.

What I put to Gray was to place the Aussie G1s (which there are many and all I put forward except one race - had a minimum purse of $1million) strategically through out the season
to stretch the stables of the big trainers. For example (and this didn't happen this season) Royal Ascot - all the big Ascot races I would have matched with Aussie G1s over the same distances. I figure most of you Brits and Irish and Scots would have gone for the Ascot races over the Aussie ones and there for open up a chance of a second tier trainer bagging an Aussie G1.
I am not fussed that the Aussie carnival races are split up - just as long as they are represented as they are as G1s and not changed to 0-70.

I think allowing two runners in G1 races has merit and is worth trialling this season BUT I do agree with Paul's statement about stable size - allowing new and bottom to mid trainers 25 and then having a cut off of 20 horse stables for top trainers. Not sure where the cut off would be but I think it's worth debating either now or later in the season.

It could be the top five from last season - 20 horses - top six to ten 23 or 22 horses - the rest 25 horses. Also allowing the top ten trainers to return last season Champs - so a top five trainer can return five last season horses and allowed a max stable limit of 25. If that makes sense.

Ok I gotta go.

A race handy horse is not a pacemaker. A race handy horse can lead but a pacemaker wants to take the lead from a race handy horse. Talking about SO6

Your horse scenario is not a forced pacemaker just because it likes to run in the lead pack. Your race handy horse would be a legitimate horse which has a chance to win so it's not a forced pacemaker which Ghostzapper and I were discussing.

Your race handy horse if leading, will not force a fast pace...it will just try to lead and conserve energy while leading. Totally different from a pacemaker which tries to run very fast splits to burn out the stamina of race handy types. This gives the fast closers to overtake the leaders at the end.

As to the 2 entry rule, I am against it if it comes to vote again in the future. But since it is already implemented for this season, I think we should allow anyone a 2nd entry if their horse rating is high enough. Too late to change it now.

As for me, I'll just enter 1 per race.

I understand what you are saying.

Certainly with my horses who are all even pace horses, they seem to totally ignore the pacemaker and run at their own even pace but if they lead the pack around without a race handy or pacemaker in front , they seem to fade badly in the final furlong, with a race handy horse in front, they usually stay the distance.

Because none of of my horses are natural race handy horses but a few horses have been given instructions to run this way, the race handies still fade badly in the final furlong.

We have the 2 horse per trainer rule and I have said before, I accept the rule for this season.

Since I was not around the forum when this was being discussed, I don't know exactly what the rule is.

Would it be possible add this rule to the "League Rules" which are stickied at the top of the forum page. I had a quick look in the league rules thread but could see no mention of this new rule.

What I would like to see is a list of races where 2 runners are allowed.

Is it only the classics, (Guineas, Derby and St Leger) or are there any other races where two runners are allowed?

It may seem that I am getting quite agitatated about this new rule and stirring things up.

It is mostly because I have had good jumps horses for about 4 seasons or so, but it is only this season and part of last season that I have had horses that can compete on the flat with the big boys and usually only half a dozen horses at that.

If I am lucky, I have one horse per distance that can compete at the highest level and now it is even harder to win races when I have one horse to compete against multiple entries from the top trainers.

This to me is a deterrant from entering flat horses in the future.

Up and comming trainers have everything stacked against them anyway, but now it is even harder.

There are quite a few races this week with 2 entries but most are lower rated races