Gray

Is Yeoman Warrior able to run in NH Race 23 Moores Millions Stayers Hcap (Leg 4) at Fairyhouse over 3m5f. He has run twice this season in maiden chases and pulled up both times but the racekit has given a better finishing position for the longer race over 4m2f. Other race was over 3m5f.

If he is not eligible, that's fair enough but it does imo raise the following issue that needs to be addressed. Under the current rules a horse that runs in a 3m5f maiden and does not finish but is placed (let's say) 8th by the racekit then runs in a 4m2f maiden and completes the course in 9th would not be eligible to run in a 4m1f+ handicap even though it has a proper rating for that trip but would be able to run in a handicap as short as 3m2f.

I'm wondering how many trainers (if any) have had problems nominating horses for this reason and whether they were allowed a manual entry instead, found another race or just gave the week a miss.

Kev.

I am probably wrong, but I thought the 3f rule didn't effect the longer distance chasers.

I had a similiar problem with one of my horses. I thought his best distance was 3m 6f, but closest race too his distance in week 1 was a 4m race where he finished 7th. I then made the mistake of running him in a 4m 2f race in week 2 where he finished 3rd. Now his best distance is set at 4m 2f and the 3f rule now stops him running at what I think is his best distance.

I did try to enter him in a 3m 5f race in week 3 but he wasn't eligible. He has had weeks 3 & 4 off as I was entering my National horses in the long distance races in weeks 3 & 4. Now I am not sure where to go with this horse, probably retirement after week 5. I have entered him in a 4m 1f race in week 5 to see if his best race was a fluke result or not.

Jim

I am not sure what can be done but if anything can it has to be done in Tom By Leon I am willing to let you both nominate a horse in the 3m 5f Contest as it seems unfair.


Gray


P.S Kev be helpful in you put the right name for me lol thought why aint tom allowing this horse in Yeoman Legend Kev Not Warrior

Afaik it's only the Grand National that isn't affected by the 3f rule. Horse just needs to run at least 3 times but only one of those races needs to be over 4m+ to qualify.

Jim your horse problem is down to trainer error in nominating a horse for a race over the wrong distance. Something we have all done at some time.
The point I'm trying to make is that the racekit can influence a horse's eligibilty for h'caps by giving it a high finishing position in a race where that horse has not completed the course. I used long distance chases as an example but the same can happen in a 2m hurdle/chase if there are several fallers. There have been a few races during the opening weeks that have been carnage with horses dumping the jockeys all over the track and only half the field completing. This means that a horse could be give a finishing position possibly as high as 5th or 6th even though they have fallen, unseated or pulled up.



Thanks Gray.
Not sure what can be done in TOM as the problem imo lies with the racekit giving every horse a finishing position even when they don't!!

sorry Gray I don't know why but I keep calling him Warrior instead of Legend. Probably thinking of the real horse.
Reminds me of my schooldays and history lessons where I kept spelling revolution "reve". Teacher kept changing the e to an o only for me to think "stupid tart can't spell" and changing it back

It's OK Gray. I have entered a different horse in the 3m 5f race and Eagle Shore Boy is probably a better horse as he has had two second places over 3m 5f this season. I probably have too many long distance horses in my stable and there are not enough races to accommodate them all.

If White Star Lad does well in the 4m 1f race in week 5, he may end up being my 2nd National horse depending on how generous you are with the handicaps.

Thanks for the offer anyway.

Jim

Your right Kev, it was my own stupid fault putting him in the wrong race. My arithmetic at converting furlongs to miles and furlongs was at fault. I was pleasantly surprised that he did so well at a distance that was probably too long for him.

He just might be a National horse after all.

My opinion for what it is worth is that the chasing handicap range should be frozen at 3m 4f.

ie anything that was eligible to run at 3m4f or over could run in any distance from 3m2f upwards.

The reasoning for this is that some horses in reality will run in races like the Hennesy Cognac Gold Cup then the Welsh National then the Cheltenham Gold Cup and then the National and the Whitbread. By league rules I don't think this would be allowed which surely can't be good.

If the mark was frozen at 3m 4f total realism would ensue. Horses would still not be eligible for the long distance races until they had run over 3m 4f and there would be more opportunity for the long distance horses to run more regularly against different opposition.

It might also make the handicaps a little more competitive without so many running out of the handicap

As for potential shenanigans re handicap mark remember the handicapper has the right to ignore a run if it is best for the handicap as a whole or he believes the horse was running out of its favoured conditions.

So a horse that was an out and out 4 miler running down the field in the Hennessy would not necessarily have its handicap mark lowered as a result but the trainer would at least be able to run it knowing that its mark was in reality more likely to go up with a good run than down with a bad one.

Just a thought for future seasons.

I have done a similar thing this season and totally messed up.
I have a returning horse who raced 8 times last season over fences, every time over 4m+.
I wanted to get a run into him this season and I ran him over 3m5f as he was eligible (he pulled up) but it has reset his best distance. It was the only handicap he was eligible for in either of the first 2 weeks (obviously none in week 1).
He is now eligible for 3m2f up to 4m but he needs 4m+ to be at his best and is nowhere near good enough for conditions races and I have wrecked his season.
Darren

I think you may be OK with this horse as exceptions are made for horses to qualify for the National. I suspect that Gray may be able to give you a manual entry into a 4m+ race.

Also, I think that last seasons races count for this season as far as the National is concerned. I think that a returning horse who qualified for the National last season will qualify for the National this season.

I posted a question about returning National horses earlier.

http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=16739

Unless I mis-understood Grays reply, I don't think you even have to run the horse 3 times this season as last seasons races count.

Jim

Your Horse has already run enough times Darren it doesn't mean 3 times a season 3 times in its life before the National if you need me to enter it later in a longer race let me know.

Gray