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Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17001		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Lordedaw [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
I have seen conflicting opinions on whether the distance thing in TOM works itself out from the best run or the best of the first 2 maiden runs or the most recent. My horse Fine Kingdom appears to have changed twice over the last 2 weeks and I am now unsure as to what distance he is eligible to run at this week.

Run 1 - maiden 32f - 11th
Run 2 - maiden 34f - 9th
Run 8 - handicap 32f - 2nd
Run 9 - handicap 36f - 2nd
Run 10 - handicap 32f - 5th

His distance marker is now 36. Surely if it is the best of the two maidens it should be 34f. This would seem to suggest that the distance marker does change week by week.

This can be proven by Friendly King who now has a distance marker of 31f but has only ran over that distance once - last week. His maiden run was at 32 and all subsequent runs have been at 29f until last weeks 31f.

In a nutshell is the rule in the rules section correct or do we go by what is in TOM week by week. And how do the race runners decide on scratchings through distance. I ask because if it is as stated in the rules Fine Kingdom should be eligible for a 31f race this week but if is by what is in TOM that it would get scratched.

This has the potential to cause many problems for race runners depending on whether they go by TOM or check the horses form. Not overly sure what race runners have to do to check eligibility so that may be nonsense. But this is something that needs clear clarification before an ineligible horse wins a big race or a horse that is entitled to run gets scratched.
Author:  Githyanki [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
Personally I have never understood why it say best run of two maidens as it has always been in my view just best run regardless of when that was. Slap a 1m horse in a 2m race which it wins, expect to have a 2m horse. Seem to me it has always been fluid.
Author:  Githyanki [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
And personally as a race runner I trust the TOM, the only thing i check is rating. If it became anything else I would step down from the task, it already wipes out the best part of 3 or 4 hours every weekend.
Author:  Githyanki [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
A far easier approach maybe to just fix it to what trainers put as best distance when entering a horse, that coupled with loosening the restrictions for the long distance stayers and chasers. Job done.
Author:  Lordedaw [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
All of those comments make sense to me Josh and I tend to think the same. Not sure that everyone thinks that is how it works though. Looking through my stable since posting, the TOM distance and therefore eligibility definitely changes throughout the season.

It does of course mean that you could end up snookering yourself by running at the min or max of your horses distance and it ends up being deemed its best performance.

Similarly this could be manipulated to get a favourable mark. If you ran a good middle distance horse over a mile until it got a low mark you could then up it to 10f for a 0-70. If it won it or ran better than in any previous run it would suddenly be eligible for 12f races but the mark probably wouldn't go up that much as it was only a low grade race. If it then won a better grade 12f race it would suddenly be eligible for 14f races.

So you could if you were of that mind set you could target a big long distance G1 handicap like the Melbourne Cup by running your horse over a mile in the early part of the season to generate a mark a low mark and let it creep up in eligibility 2f at a time starting from a low mark rather than from scratch. If you made sure you only won low grade races you'd be laughing.

Now who was it said I was Barney Curley !! :lol:
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
agree no brainer 2 furlongs either side of distance selected that would solve a whole lot of hassle

3 for NH
Author:  Lordedaw [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
agree no brainer 2 furlongs either side of distance selected that would solve a whole lot of hassle

3 for NH


Would get my vote although I'd suggest 4f for NH as horses regularly go up and down half a mile over jumps. Take this weekend for example - Champion Hurdle horses are usually running in the Aintree Hurdle as no G1 2miler. Same with the chasers. I remember you trying your Mack The Knife over 2 and a half a couple of seasons ago for that very reason. Distance rules could then be used in non handicaps too.
Author:  simpleminds [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
I think everybody Should put down Best Distance for horse on upload and then Tom would use that has best distance.

Gray
Author:  Pommard [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
simpleminds wrote:
I think everybody Should put down Best Distance for horse on upload and then Tom would use that has best distance.

Gray


I agree in principle but I just chucked a team together from flat rejects at the last moment with no trialling so it was trial and error in the league as regards their best distance. The stated distance on the trial screen is sometimes wildly inaccurate.
Author:  simpleminds [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
I don't know how other trainers trial Darren I trial at Cheltenham

Hurdles 2m, 2m 4F, 3m The best 2Milers and 2m 4fur horses run in heats over 2m 2f and the best 2m 4f and 3m run in 2m 6f truals

That's how I do it for Chasers Except I trial at 3m 3f. 3m 5f, 4m all at Cheltenham then 4m 3f at the Grand National Course.

Gray
Author:  NPG319 [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
On the flat, should horses who are slated for 16f+ be allowed 3f either side just like their hunt stable mates?
Author:  dit74 [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fine Kingdom - Distance issue
To be fair I think as it is works just fine, I have played a few seasons now and had a few learning curves regarding horses I put in my stable. At first it was wildly upload anything vaguely good then I couldn't run them due to distance rules etc i even uploaded 3yo in my NH stable in my first season without knowing I couldn't enter them in any races :) . Its still the same as my horses have improved and i cant run them in a lot of handicaps as they are rated too high, well I guess that's my bad luck for improving my horses to a point where they are competitive in Group Races but perhaps not always good enough to win them. As for distance I try and keep the horses at the distance I think is their best as I believe in being transparent, its far more satisfying winning a good handicap with a horse rated fairly than one that has been targeted at the wrong distance to get a good weight and trust me I am competitive!!
I'm not always on here or comment on things as I am very busy with work but I do think the league is running perfectly well as is just thought I would add that in and the guys who run it put in an awful lot of work to make it enjoyable for the rest of us too. Just thought I'd say my piece for once
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