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 Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races 
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Post Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races

Flat Races - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVElKxS ... 2dcwFkrJ12

Jumps Races - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj-ASox ... dhqxZPCgzV

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:54 pm
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
I'm currently handicapping race 15. A lot of the horses ratings in the race video do not correspond with the ratings in TOM and the horse files I have which are both correct. The winner won cosily with a 60 rating in a handicap. He should of run with a 68 rating. Many other horses ratings are incorrect also.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:46 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Okay now I'm on race 16 and we have the same issue. My horse won this one with a 60 rating when he should of had a 66 rating. Lots of other incorrect ratings too. This was a handicap so this is important. I probably would've lost this one carrying correct weight.

Man this makes handicapping the ratings hard.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:03 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
A bunch of horses in race 16 had sub 45 ratings in TOM and my horse files. How? I'm almost sure I didn't input them last week in the kit and I know for sure I didn't input them in TOM because you can't go lower than 45 in TOM. Weird.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
The race runner didn't set the right button in the kit. I'm vaguely aware of such a setting. It keeps the kit from setting the ratings for a race?

Anyways race 17 is the same issue. I won this one too. Carrying less weight than I should have.

This is not fair to the others and these races should be rerun.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:22 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Same issue for race 18. This particular race runner did races 13-20 so the next two I expect have the same problem.

Accidents happen so I guess we'll all have to live with it because I'm pretty sure these races won't be rerun.

For the few trainers whose horses benefited from the false ratings/weights expect a higher than average boost in your rating. For the rest expect a major ratings drop for not getting a fair shake.

I won't examine each horses form like I normally do so I am just winging it with these ratings.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:46 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Man these ratings I have in this weeks horse files and TOM dont match what I gave them last week.

I DONT KNOW WHAT RATINGS ARE RIGHT THESE WEEK.

I am not spending time researching what ratings are right.

I did races 13 to 17 tonight assuming what I saw in my horses files and TOM were right. ( It appears they are not)

I am skipping races 18,19 and 20. Those ratings are staying at what they are. Races 13 to 17 will stay at what I gave them tonight before just now when I realized all is not what it appears.

I am skipping ahead to race 21.

Sorry guys but this is too much to sort out.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:02 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
I think we should re-run races 13>20.
If the ratings are right out then I think it's fair play to re-run them.
Big call by Sirius as well considering he has two winners.

If I can get the races before 8.5 hours time I can add comms.....but the comms aren't of any importance but correct results are.

Time now is approx. 3.00am England time.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:08 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
:shock:

Well as a handicap trainer and whether mine were effected or not, I have to agree, they need re-running with the correct marks, I realise that accidents happen, but if this was a 7 runner G1 and weight for age had not been taken into account you can be sure it would be re-run, it is unfortunate that it was over a few, but that's life.

If a good proportion of trainers have been affected and it appears so, then for the good of the league, there is two options re-run or scrapped from TOM those races removed/details etc.

On another note 6 of these races where AW qualifiers, this will make a farce of the finals next week.

I am not sure of the work involved in TOM but I will not be happy if they are left as is, tough enough at the lower end and handicaps on the flat is where it is for most.

p.s happy to help with any work that may be involved :)


Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:45 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Firstly I believe this issue maybe needs opening up in its own thread so more people see it.

There are a number of things that need to be considered here when a decision is made:

1. You have to apply the same consideration when making a decision about the outcome of these races regardless of their status. The GN was rerun when an error was spotted ... and almost certainly would have been rerun if spotted after transmission.

2. The impact the decision will make on championships, qualifier races and the handicap.

3. The integrity of the season and the league itself to apply the same rules and considerations at every level.

As I see it there are 3 possible decisions here, all with huge implications and plus and minus points.

1. The results stand - this is the easiest decision but also the most unfair one on the trainers that didn't win. Sirius has openly stated that he does not think his horses would have won. I won one of the races in question and can not be sure mine would have won a fair race either.

2. The races are declared void and erased from existence but not rerun - This is probably the second easiest option but in effect is even more unfair than 1, as this would impact 5 trainers per race with prize money placing etc. It would also result in almost 20% of the races not counting - which for the trainers impacted is more like 50% of their realistic targets. Making the week a right off or farce for some.

3. The races are rerun - This is the best and only universally equal option but I guess is the hardest to implement as it will require time and effort. However, if we aren't going to do things properly then maybe it is best if we just don't bother. In my opinion if any one is interested this is the only option that has any credibility and is the only one that retains the integrity of the season.

If we were talking 7 races at Cheltenham last week all won by the top trainers then you can be 100% certain reruns would take place. I am happy to comm the reruns later if required. The same rules and considerations must be given to the lower end of the scale as they would be to the top or most of us may as well just give up.

Finally, mistakes can and will be made, it is how we learn from them that matters. I hope whoever made this error isn't feeling bad or that they are going to be singled out. I have seen the video about race running and would not want to take it on as it looks pretty fiddly and open to mistakes, especially if you have to do a lot. The race runners have had a difficult time this season as there aren't enough of them. Lets just make a the correct decision and move on ... swiftly and with style as someone once said :)

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:36 am
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
I can potentially re-run some of these, but not until later today, mid afternoon most likely.

Josh


Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Lordedaw wrote:
Firstly I believe this issue maybe needs opening up in its own thread so more people see it.

There are a number of things that need to be considered here when a decision is made:

1. You have to apply the same consideration when making a decision about the outcome of these races regardless of their status. The GN was rerun when an error was spotted ... and almost certainly would have been rerun if spotted after transmission.

2. The impact the decision will make on championships, qualifier races and the handicap.

3. The integrity of the season and the league itself to apply the same rules and considerations at every level.

As I see it there are 3 possible decisions here, all with huge implications and plus and minus points.

1. The results stand - this is the easiest decision but also the most unfair one on the trainers that didn't win. Sirius has openly stated that he does not think his horses would have won. I won one of the races in question and can not be sure mine would have won a fair race either.

2. The races are declared void and erased from existence but not rerun - This is probably the second easiest option but in effect is even more unfair than 1, as this would impact 5 trainers per race with prize money placing etc. It would also result in almost 20% of the races not counting - which for the trainers impacted is more like 50% of their realistic targets. Making the week a right off or farce for some.

3. The races are rerun - This is the best and only universally equal option but I guess is the hardest to implement as it will require time and effort. However, if we aren't going to do things properly then maybe it is best if we just don't bother. In my opinion if any one is interested this is the only option that has any credibility and is the only one that retains the integrity of the season.

If we were talking 7 races at Cheltenham last week all won by the top trainers then you can be 100% certain reruns would take place. I am happy to comm the reruns later if required. The same rules and considerations must be given to the lower end of the scale as they would be to the top or most of us may as well just give up.

Finally, mistakes can and will be made, it is how we learn from them that matters. I hope whoever made this error isn't feeling bad or that they are going to be singled out. I have seen the video about race running and would not want to take it on as it looks pretty fiddly and open to mistakes, especially if you have to do a lot. The race runners have had a difficult time this season as there aren't enough of them. Lets just make a the correct decision and move on ... swiftly and with style as someone once said :)


Fully agree Martin


Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
Races 13 to 20 to be re run.


Gray

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
will the stats in tom be correct tomorrow or thursday Gray

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:19 pm
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Post Re: Season 4 WEEK 11 Tuesday Races
simpleminds wrote:
Races 13 to 20 to be re run.


Gray


Good decision Gray. If you need me to comm them later just let me know.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:22 pm
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