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 FAO JIM 
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Post FAO JIM
as discussed last season Jim


Have you an ideas for a Cup format for 25 trainers something that would
keep most people interested for the season but something that is not too high
maintenance.

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Fri May 25, 2018 4:29 pm
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Post Re: FAO JIM
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
as discussed last season Jim

Have you an ideas for a Cup format for 25 trainers something that would
keep most people interested for the season but something that is not too high
maintenance.


DCC Handicap Cup ???

Lets just use handicaps for the scoring.... should keep all involved, obviously if not using the knock out format we could go 5 groups of 5, over 4 weeks (wks 2-5) lets say, winners and runners up & 6 best 3rd place go through to 2nd round then knock out. 2nd round, Week 6-7 Qtr Final, wks 8-9 Semis wks 10-11, FINAL wks 12-13.

Other than running the 5 x 5 leagues until week 10 (trying to keep all involved) and winners & 3 best 2nd placers go to Qtrs week 11, semis week 12 final week 13

Ooops FAO JIM....

OK pretending to be Jim now... away wit ya laddie, canne nae do that hen..... and other common colloquial terms.... im away for me fish supper now.. :lol:

I'll get my coat......


Fri May 25, 2018 5:45 pm
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Post Re: FAO JIM
Not entirely sure i understand this method :lol: :lol: :lol:

So only using results from handicap races that would be hours of work going through them
then putting the scores together thats alot of work Stu and sounds a very boring job for whoever
is going to manage it. Plus using only handicap results would that not rule out the top tier trainers.

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Fri May 25, 2018 5:54 pm
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Post Re: FAO JIM
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
Not entirely sure i understand this method :lol: :lol: :lol:

So only using results from handicap races that would be hours of work going through them
then putting the scores together thats alot of work Stu and sounds a very boring job for whoever
is going to manage it. Plus using only handicap results would that not rule out the top tier trainers.


Yes, your probably right on all counts, although the elites with 0-100's & 0-110's on the flat would prob even out as more different winners in the bottom handicaps and in the hunt lets be honest as long as they don't fall or PU's most elites carry 12st easily in the hunt compared to the rest.

But the admin side would be a pain, I would offer my services, but not sure I will have much time from about week 6/7 so cant really commit and would hate to let anyone down.... also who runs a season during the World Cup.... no thought to these dates :wink:


Fri May 25, 2018 6:26 pm
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Post Re: FAO JIM
What about a round robin competition. That way everyone is guaranteed to survive to week 9 and they are competing against trainers of roughly their own ability.

Split the 25 trainers into 5 groups of 5 based on the resullts in the first 4 weeks.

Every trainer matches up to every other trainer in their group. 5 trainers = 4 ties per trainer so that takes you up to week 9.

Two points for a win, one point for a draw.

I think it would be something like
In week 5 it would be trainer A v trainer B, trainer C v trainer D, trainer E has no tie that week.
In week 6 it would be trainer A v trainer C, trainer B v trainer E, trainer D has no tie
In week 7 it would be trainer A v trainer D, trainer C v trainer E, trainer B has no tie
In week 8 it would be trainer A v trainer E, trainer B v trainer D, trainer C has no tie
In week 9 it would be trainer B v trainer C, trainer D v trainer E, trainer A has no tie

That gives a winner for each division\league.

I am not sure what you do with the 5 winners, perhaps put them into a knockout competition. Ideally you want 4 trainers into the semi finals, so perhaps the two trainers from the bottom 2 groups take part in a play-off against each other, then the 4 remaining trainers go into a random draw. This would take 3 weeks so the competition would be decided in week 12.


Sat May 26, 2018 1:01 am
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Post Re: FAO JIM
Wannabe wrote:
What about a round robin competition. That way everyone is guaranteed to survive to week 9 and they are competing against trainers of roughly their own ability.

Split the 25 trainers into 5 groups of 5 based on the resullts in the first 4 weeks.

Every trainer matches up to every other trainer in their group. 5 trainers = 4 ties per trainer so that takes you up to week 9.

Two points for a win, one point for a draw.

I think it would be something like
In week 5 it would be trainer A v trainer B, trainer C v trainer D, trainer E has no tie that week.
In week 6 it would be trainer A v trainer C, trainer B v trainer E, trainer D has no tie
In week 7 it would be trainer A v trainer D, trainer C v trainer E, trainer B has no tie
In week 8 it would be trainer A v trainer E, trainer B v trainer D, trainer C has no tie
In week 9 it would be trainer B v trainer C, trainer D v trainer E, trainer A has no tie

That gives a winner for each division\league.

I am not sure what you do with the 5 winners, perhaps put them into a knockout competition. Ideally you want 4 trainers into the semi finals, so perhaps the two trainers from the bottom 2 groups take part in a play-off against each other, then the 4 remaining trainers go into a random draw. This would take 3 weeks so the competition would be decided in week 12.



The thing is that sounds alot like how the DCC league is already run with trainers split into Groups based on abilty
so there would not be much difference between the league and cup and it sounds like a pretty high maintenance format
I was thinking of something more like splitting the Cup into 3 knockout cups based on ability

CUP A Top 8 trainers
CUP B Middle 9 trainers
CUP C Bottom 8 trainers

The cup is meant to be a kind of a bonus add on its alot of work just doing the DCC League updates doing a big in
depth cup would be too much especially at this time of year I dont have a lot of time.

Unless someone wants to take over the cup part im more than happy to if anyone is interested an i will concentrate
on the League side.

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Sat May 26, 2018 6:53 am
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Post Re: FAO JIM
I think that a straight knockout competition sees too many trainers eliminated in the first couple of rounds. We want trainers to stay interested longer so a round robin competition keeps everyone interested for longer.

It doesn't need to be 5 groups of 5, it could be 3 groups of 6 and one group of 7. That would take 8 weeks to complete and finish in week 12. There would be no overall winner, but you would have a a winner for each level of trainer. Everyone would be involved until week 12.

I must agree with you, it would take a lot more work to maintain this type of setup and I know at this time of the year, I am at my busiest.


Sat May 26, 2018 7:13 am
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Post Re: FAO JIM
Wannabe wrote:
I think that a straight knockout competition sees too many trainers eliminated in the first couple of rounds. We want trainers to stay interested longer so a round robin competition keeps everyone interested for longer.

It doesn't need to be 5 groups of 5, it could be 3 groups of 6 and one group of 7. That would take 8 weeks to complete and finish in week 12. There would be no overall winner, but you would have a a winner for each level of trainer. Everyone would be involved until week 12.

I must agree with you, it would take a lot more work to maintain this type of setup and I know at this time of the year, I am at my busiest.



I understand what you are saying but it just sounds like a league format i think the current league format works well to keep
everyone interested through out the season. This format just sounds like the same sort of thing i guess the only real difference
is it will be based on head to head fixtures.

You need several weeks to identify the ability of trainers at least 4 that leaves you with 9 weeks for a cup tournament.

Your proposed format will be a huge amount of work sorting scores results updating tables weekly It would be really high maintenance
TBH I just dont have the time to dedicate to it. As I have said id be delighted if anyone wanted to take over the cup part but im not
holding my breath

Also the fact that TOM wont recognize dead heat winners so you have to keep records of this an this adds alot of work too.
Leon said there had been a fix for this last season but it did not work the horses listed second on the race result screen
was never credited with the win or the trainer so i have to do it manually.

TBH i dont know what to do for the best but know I cant dedicate a great deal of time towards a cup comp.

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Sat May 26, 2018 8:20 am
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