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 In reply to a 2 tier league.... 
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Post In reply to a 2 tier league....
Now things have cooled down a little over the flat issue and some people’s desire to make it a two tier league, I am in favour, but we really need everyone on board to make the league successful & to promote to newbies etc…. obviously I am a low end trainer so I have tried to imagine I am at the top as well, so I do not crucify the elite end of the league & I think I have been neutral. I have always been good at telling you how bad it is, so finally I will try and offer a solution or two :D

The two league affair maybe too drastic at this stage and I guess we should be looking at an all-encompassing league rather than splitting and just adjust for a better spread, I have listed what I think may help us all to get along and be happy with the future, we can’t always be so realistic with the schedule & conditions as our game & league does not fit it.

A lot of these ideas are from odd forum posts from different trainers over the past 18 months, when this subject has arose before, as well as a few mad Stu ideas, although not so mad imo, of course :wink:

1. No changes to league in the first 5 weeks.

2. Gray has already mentioned some tweaks for Ascot which he will implement.

3. From week 6 all G1 races are a minimum of 100 (this will stop what happened last week in the Eclipse & some other races, not sure about fto's allowed in but open for discussion)

4. G2’s Max rating 120.

5. G3’s Max rating 115 (Vote to see if made handicap’s ?)

6. Listed Max rating 110 (Vote to see if made handicap’s ?)

7. All handicaps in current schedule dropped by 5, I’d prefer 10 but maybe pushing it, leave Prestige handicaps at 110 so that top trainers may enter. Ebor etc etc. (a Std current hcap 110 will become a 105, 100 to 95 & so forth etc.)

8. Leave 0-70’s as nothing below 45, so nothing out of handicap.

9. No horse that has won in the first 5 weeks can be transferred out at the window (Reason: This is needed because the top trainers improve faster so any perceived chance a mid/lower trainer of closing the gap is lost, I think most low/mid trainer would rarely drop a previous winner from their stable, but applies to them as well)

10. All races double entry but strict course maximum field to be followed and lowest rated out first, regardless of who trains it, no more everyone gets 1 entry

11. Add a few extra races were possible, with conditions, i.e Trainers with no winners or low amounts under 5 eg. can only enter, as well as invitational style races were only top trainers with 15 + eg. winners (high) can enter. Could even do a short style championship with this over 5 races say

12. Consider returning to a 20 flat stable. (to make sure most can get a run week in week out, although this is hard to gauge at this stage)

13. Purse figures are pointless until it has a total overhaul, so saying, make a big money low end handicap doesn’t really give anyone any more incentive than the WIN.

As most of these ideas are really editing the sched rather than a drastic change, I think they are all achievable.

This should keep a better spread of victories and keep more horses within their level and the opportunity to move up and down grades in a realistic manner.

Nothing gets downgraded, nothing is cheapened and ideally we can all still play within the one league.

I would appreciate that the comments posted are kept civil and if you want to blow bits out of the water, please come back with constructive ideas, not just “that won’t work” let’s try and explain & discuss.

As I said, not all my ideas an accumulation of many, so don’t shoot the messenger hahahah. btw I will just delete, if I feel picked on :wink:


Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:16 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
well thought out well structured and think the return to stable of 20 would be good (take away some of the big boys bullets)however what about keeping the 25 stable say if you finish outside the top 6 or 7 or whatever to keep up the number of entries weekly cos if your adding races you need horses to fill them


Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:48 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
jalupen wrote:
well thought out well structured and think the return to stable of 20 would be good (take away some of the big boys bullets)however what about keeping the 25 stable say if you finish outside the top 6 or 7 or whatever to keep up the number of entries weekly cos if your adding races you need horses to fill them


I think the idea of double entries every race might cover it - we could use the first 5 weeks to gauge it all by.


Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:59 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
I tried the max rating and min last season but no code in Tom for min ratings until that is sorted we cant have Min ratings which means I have to check every race and scratch a pain in the backside keep stable 25 you don't know how many trainers once we hit 50 reduce stable Number but again we might have to close the window a week before season starts to check amount of trainers.


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Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:08 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
jalupen wrote:
well thought out well structured and think the return to stable of 20 would be good (take away some of the big boys bullets)however what about keeping the 25 stable say if you finish outside the top 6 or 7 or whatever to keep up the number of entries weekly cos if your adding races you need horses to fill them


Wasn't really to plan to take bullets away, more a protection to the problem that arises and has arisen that not all horses get an opportunity to race each week as can't be sure that these changes to the sched. will deff work.

The extra horses per stable depending where you finish in the league could even go to an extra slot for champ trainers, although not sure TOM is up for this.


Last edited by Anadin on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:00 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
simpleminds wrote:
I tried the max rating and min last season but no code in Tom for min ratings until that is sorted we cant have Min ratings which means I have to check every race and scratch a pain in the backside keep stable 25 you don't know how many trainers once we hit 50 reduce stable Number but again we might have to close the window a week before season starts to check amount of trainers.

Gray


Understand this Gray, but I think we have to give more onus/responsibility to the trainers if they don't read the rules at the start or look at the schedule, read the forum, I don't think we should be "moddy coddling" them if they nominate wrong & I do not think this is being unfair, yes some of the foreign trainers may need help.

They can get pulled at Race Run as if their handicap is out and spotted by the RR, that's their fault not yours if they don't get a run, I don't think this is difficult to be policed by all & not for you to go through and scratch, they will soon pick it up after a few dont run.

Stable numbers again as I mentioned above, was more to protect, that all get a run.


Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:06 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
If we want to explore G3's as handicap races but don't want to change existing G3's from set weights to hcp - I have counted 11 Australian G3 handicaps than can be used to replace or add to the schedule.


Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:09 am
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
No issues with anything mentioned here Stu

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Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:43 am
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
It’s all about taking bullets away stu, or maybe the gun itself :)

Anyway I am passed the point where I care, I would simply say piling more work onto gray and the race runners to deal with trainers who don’t check entries does not feel like a good solution to me. There will be mistakes then debates about re-runs etc etc.


Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:10 am
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
I think it doesn't sound to bad, we really need to make a decision about next season . We just going around in circles, chasing our own tail :D :D :D . Why not try it and if it doesn't work we'll sack Stu :lol: :lol:


Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:17 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
ghostzapper74 wrote:
I think it doesn't sound to bad, we really need to make a decision about next season . We just going around in circles, chasing our own tail :D :D :D . Why not try it and if it doesn't work we'll sack Stu :lol: :lol:


Since it's Stu's neck on the chopping block - I say let's go for it :-D


Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:12 am
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
simpleminds wrote:
I tried the max rating and min last season but no code in Tom for min ratings until that is sorted we cant have Min ratings which means I have to check every race and scratch a pain in the backside keep stable 25 you don't know how many trainers once we hit 50 reduce stable Number but again we might have to close the window a week before season starts to check amount of trainers.


Gray



As trainers we all could self regulate the entries when we go to nominate our own horses by posting in the forums if we see a horse that is entered that doesn't meet the requirement of a race.
OR
We appoint 2 stewards that scan the entries to make sure all entries are correct and they have the ability to enter TOM to scratch any runners that don't meet race qualifications.


Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:21 am
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
I think the suggestions are good. I dont want a two tier league, and I accept that group races are difficult to win. And that some put more effort in and are succesful.

I really like the double entries, it should be like that for all races. The league works great, but if I can put in two horses in a 0-80 I dont need to put one of them in a group race I can not compete in just to give my horse a race.


Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:39 pm
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
Disappointing that some gusto has left a player or two over the recent weeks regarding the flat league and I hope it does return as I know we all feel deeply about our league and what is right and wrong & the way to go & we are all in this together.

Pleased tho in general people appear in favor of most of the ideas, BUT we of course would need some more assistance in making it work and to increase workloads to already overburdened volunteers was probably incorrect of me to suggest.

Doug's idea of stewards (did we not have these in 04,05 league?) could be the answer, but probably needs more discussion, we still have a few weeks to go, so lets keep this going, whether in favor or not, we need all the pros and cons before any of us know if it is practical and will even up the discrepancies in the format as is.

Now... I was thinking about the hunt :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:43 am
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Post Re: In reply to a 2 tier league....
Anadin wrote:
Disappointing that some gusto has left a player or two over the recent weeks regarding the flat league and I hope it does return as I know we all feel deeply about our league and what is right and wrong & the way to go & we are all in this together.

Pleased tho in general people appear in favor of most of the ideas, BUT we of course would need some more assistance in making it work and to increase workloads to already overburdened volunteers was probably incorrect of me to suggest.

Doug's idea of stewards (did we not have these in 04,05 league?) could be the answer, but probably needs more discussion, we still have a few weeks to go, so lets keep this going, whether in favor or not, we need all the pros and cons before any of us know if it is practical and will even up the discrepancies in the format as is.

Now... I was thinking about the hunt :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


OH NO HE DID'NT :lol: :lol: :lol: OMG dont mention changing the jumps league there will be a riot

would there be really any extra work split the races we already have so 19 for L1 19 for L2

Yes we had stewards for the league in my time not sure if they were ever called into action

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Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:51 am
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