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 SO7 
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Post Re: SO7
NPG319 wrote:
Beast


Can you please tell the game that because he is yet to win a race :lol: :lol:


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Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:43 pm
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Post Re: SO7
A BEAST of a DUD lol :lol:


Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:44 am
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Post Re: SO7
NPG319 wrote:
A BEAST of a DUD lol :lol:

finished winning 1 race from 37 starts it was a Group 2

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Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:28 am
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Post Re: SO7
NPG319 wrote:
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Scenario #3... A Reset
Most unlikely as it would upset alot of players with time already invested.
Mark may have already stated that there will be no reset, if so i have missed it.



I think Mark has stated there will be no reset.

The thing is - a beta is traditionally there for the developer to resolve any running issues before launch and then everything resets when the game is launched.
What has muddied the waters is Mark offered the game for sale before the official launch and ending of the beta which may have given some people the thought that the game is officially GO.

Personally I think there should be a reset and then it's game on and if you choose to smash it 10 hours a day - go for it. But this will be the first online game I have played that wont reset on launch which was something I was expecting it to do - and the reason why I wasn't bothered downloading and putting time into the game.

This is a problem for the league only. And since we are apparently in the minority, I'm not so sure this was fully thought out or if we are of any real concern. I've actually got some mixed thoughts and emotions about this that I will push aside and make up my mind after this current league season is finished.
. Doug if u right that Mark doesn't give a flying Fig about the league then he is being short sighted because we keep the game going when it's been around a year or two and who advertises this game on utube, our league. If someone was to watch a league race on utube and see how good and realistic it is then i'm sure that would draw people in to buying it. If he does't give a damn then the league will finish in SO6.


Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:46 pm
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Post Re: SO7
ghosty wrote:
NPG319 wrote:
Quote:
Scenario #3... A Reset
Most unlikely as it would upset alot of players with time already invested.
Mark may have already stated that there will be no reset, if so i have missed it.



I think Mark has stated there will be no reset.

The thing is - a beta is traditionally there for the developer to resolve any running issues before launch and then everything resets when the game is launched.
What has muddied the waters is Mark offered the game for sale before the official launch and ending of the beta which may have given some people the thought that the game is officially GO.

Personally I think there should be a reset and then it's game on and if you choose to smash it 10 hours a day - go for it. But this will be the first online game I have played that wont reset on launch which was something I was expecting it to do - and the reason why I wasn't bothered downloading and putting time into the game.

This is a problem for the league only. And since we are apparently in the minority, I'm not so sure this was fully thought out or if we are of any real concern. I've actually got some mixed thoughts and emotions about this that I will push aside and make up my mind after this current league season is finished.
.

Doug if u right that Mark doesn't give a flying Fig about the league then he is being short sighted because we keep the game going when it's been around a year or two and who advertises this game on utube, our league. If someone was to watch a league race on utube and see how good and realistic it is then i'm sure that would draw people in to buying it. If he does't give a damn then the league will finish in SO6.


Mark wrote:
I had indicated there would unlikely be a reset as the major problems have all been fixed. I could not actually see why the chance of hitting very high potential bars would have been affected by the fixes that happened a few patches ago. In fact these changes if anything should have made breeding slightly less hit and miss (but still more so than SO6 that is intended).

The fact is that until there is some sort of league and people start racing their horses in a competitive online completion we won't know if there is a real problem. The potential bar is not everything. This also applies to improvements made to the race code around pace. I have a feeling early pacers may go from having a unfair disadvantage (in SO6) to possibly having an unfair advantage in SO7. Again, this will become clear after racing has started and can be tweaked. It is not always a good thing for a player to make judgements trailing their own horses as they often fit a specific profile due to breeding lines which can lead to unrealistic races anyway.

Maybe some exhibition races need to be run. This is the way it has happened in the past. Then problems then surface and can then be fixed or tweaked and restarts are made only if it's considered necessary. Then if a restart is the consensus one can be made. It's not usefull to have a restart now before we know if all league issues are ironed out.


I think he does consider the League based on what he has said.
There will be a transition period for the League to SO7, which is why i think we need to discuss "how" we make it happen.


Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:19 pm
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Post Re: SO7
Having spoken to Mark several times over the years I can tell you he only has good intentions for the league
but right now its just not a priority most likely at the bottom of the list of priorities..

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Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:28 pm
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Post Re: SO7
It's not that I don't care about the league but as far as development goes the tail can't wag the dog. The league software always get's ignored during the release rush to get everything right but I'm happy to look at any required changes.

I had said there probably wouldn't be a restart because I couldn't see that it would be required. There was a bug fix during the period that people suggest potential took a hit. I could not see how this fix could have hit the potential. If anything the fix could have the opposite effect over time. I looked into it and just couldn't find the cause.

As you guys breed en-mass I could do with a clearer idea of exactly what change people was introduced. Is the offspring potential range on average wider or just slightly higher?

The best solution is not for a restart but to tweak things so the current version offspring are not disadvantaged (if this is the case). This should not affect the single player game as I suspect the actual effect is minimal but over time with constant league breeding is noticeable. I just need an illustration of the difference between the older patch and current version breeding results to understand it so it can be looked into.


Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:49 pm
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Post Re: SO7
Hi Mark and thanks for taking time out to address us.

One of the league concerns for SO7 is that some trainers are well advanced because of the beta with their breeding where others have held back for a launch date. I think we were hoping that on the launch date we'd all start at the same point and then it was up to the efforts of each trainer from there onwards - it 'may' have made the first SO7 league season interesting especially if we had called it soon after launch.

Another important issue that has been mentioned with breeding is the concern that some trainers will work from an earlier patch where potential was good and some would work after the latest patch where it seems the potential isn't as 'healthy' - this could potentially lop side the league trainers with one group finding it easier to breed great horses and dominating the league or we would have new trainers coming along who don't realise about breeding before an earlier patch and have no hope of competing or you would get mugs like me who prefer to have the latest patches running as to what I am use to playing Battlefield and even just running the latest updates/patches on my phone and desktop.


JANGO may have a potential solution or thought about the patch issue but I will let him explain that.

Thanks Mark.

Doug.


Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:10 pm
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Post Re: SO7
Hi Mark I thought it was defiantly around patch 0.074 but looking at the bug log it must have been 0.081 but thats a guess


0.081
1024 layout fixes.
Moving horse to main stable. In some cases the stable will auto extend if no room. This fixes problems related to moving new horses into the stable at year end when no room. Each stable expansion is charged individualy so better to make room before the new horses are due.
Retire to stud greyed out if stable is maxed out bug. Fixed.
Minor breeding mod relating to offspring quality.
'In-foal to' horse data text now active/clickable.

Basically before this most of my 3YO's were full bar potential now its incredibly hard to get a full bar 3yo I think I have only bred 4 or 5 since the dent
in potential You can see the difference below

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Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:16 pm
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Post Re: SO7
NPG319 wrote:
JANGO may have a potential solution or thought about the patch issue but I will let him explain that.


Put simply if the League had a way to identify what version/patch a horse was bred from it would enable the League deal with any perceived advantages stemming from historic patches.
If some form of version meta-data could be tagged to a horse at the time of breeding (not export) and then referenced possibly in a field in the Race kit or CK.

Personally i would not be in favour of a game reset because firstly it could disadvantage non league players and create animosity towards the League.
And secondly not resetting would still allow League trainers that have spent considerable time breeding to use those horses as breeding stock.
That's just my opinion. :)

I do not know if we need a new Race Kit for SO7 horses, perhaps someone can comment on that?

I would like to hear Gray's thoughts on this situation as clearly we need the League admin involved.
I think dealing with any SO7 issues now before post season fatigue kicks is a good idea.

Cheers


Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:17 am
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Post Re: SO7
Great to see the conversation heading the right way here. I find myself in a massive limbo at the minute. In terms of SO6 I am at a point, that I think if I concentrated on it for a bit now, I could get a reasonable team together for another season. However, it seems pointless to try now, and by the time we find out, it may become impossible to get it sorted in time to be enjoyable enough.

I'd much prefer the next season to be SO7 I think, even meaning there may be a slight delay. As Mark mentioned there, if he can find the factor effecting the potential an sort that (the perfect solution for me), it might actually not be as far off as we imagine.

I can safely say, I started playing about a month ago, I've bought practically every horse I can buy over what must be about 30-40 seasons and I've not had 1 horse 100% potential so far. I never played any of the early patches. I have a lot of breeding mares in the barn too, at about 90 potential, breeding with all the best stallions in there, an not bred one above 90 I don't think.

I think I'm edging towards concentrating on SO7 now, but then again, it seems wasted time if it is reset. It also means if we have another season of SO6 I won't be able to enter it, as this seasons crop are already cast offs and simply not really good enough

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Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:37 am
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Post Re: SO7
The origin (patch version at birth) of a single horse is not stored. Restarts are primarily caused by significant game changes that cause incompatibilities. This requires all game players to abandon their games as well as league players abandoning their exports. So it's a big deal and not used lightly.

So I don't see a game restart happening. There is no reason for it. I realise that some players may feel they have lagged behind others who have been breeding SO7 horses but this will likely even out over time. The most realistic option is to make small tweaks to the potential range via breeding over coming patches. It won't alter the single player game as we are tweaking back to match a patch from a short time ago and likely very small numbers.


Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:12 pm
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Post Re: SO7
Mark wrote:
It won't alter the single player game as we are tweaking back to match a patch from a short time ago and likely very small numbers.


If it helps I think I'll be able to find the exact patch we think this started. I don't have the time at the minute, but will try and look into it on my work commute over next week if I can. I still have all of them saved, so rolling back and forth won't be an issue.


Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:21 pm
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Post Re: SO7
I can see the issues here, and I hope it will be sorted such as that every one participating in the league feels it is a fair game.

For me, as a lower level trainer, I have always acknowledged that they who put most time and effort in this game is most likely to succeed. That is fine with me. I know where the bar is and what I have to do to reach that level.

Even though I don't succeed at the highest level in the league I really appreciate it. I look forward to every season and I embrace the mini-cosmos that the league is. I feel I kind of know Stu, Martin and Doug who gives great commentary, Gray who runs it and is always helpful, Paul. Josh and Jim who always are willing to share their experiences even though that could make it harder for them to win , and Jango, Del and others that contributes a lot.

That is just as important to me, the community, than just the races and the wins. I really love to be a part of all this. And that is why I can volunteer to be the leagues stat man. I have always felt welcomed and rooted for when doing well. It is warm and including. (? Sorry for bad English here).I have to say that this being run on a voluntarily basis is fairly unique. We have something special going on here. I also see that we are a minor minority of all people playing SO in the world competing in the league. When I did my statistics I counted to 140 ca. participants in the league in SO6. But I think that our minority plays a big role in driving the game forward and contributes a lot to the development of new games for Mark. I think we are important and contribute a lot to the game and the forums.

My point is, I understand the will for all of you to win and the need for a level playing field. I also think we are going to get there anyhow. But don't forget the community and the camaraderie we have between us.We will endure an unlevel playing field because we trust each other, and what it all comes down to is our affection for the league. I think we can admit it all of us, we want the league to continue, it makes our Tuesdays to Thursdays great again (I really like the change of days, I like to have the weekend to manage my stable and my entries). I say go for it. Lets get on with a SO7 league. Even though there can be some hiccups at the start, I am a firm believer that in the end it will come good. And my impression of the top trainers is that they don't want it to be to easy. They want competition, so they want to play it fair. That is the greatness of this league.

Daniel


Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:29 pm
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Post Re: SO7
Well said, Daniel.


Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:06 am
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