Also think Josh came into SO6 league fairly late maybe season 4 or 5 think he wont mind me saying that he really struggled
then became a multiple champion in fact a dominant force and it will be far easier in SO7 to catch up

Ok ....No i do NOT want TTF's back.
I do wonder if we had the stats back that at least we would know when we had a competitive horse and not some donkey.
But thats all i was doing. Wondering what the other trainers thought of the current League situation.

I'll stick to race running and replying to the "how do i" posts from now on.

I was originally neither a fan of SO7 or the league mode and whilst i grudgingly accepted losing the tff would make the league more accessible to all, I was against losing the bars.

Right now I am happy enough to accept that I was wrong. I genuinely think we would all laugh our asses off if we could see the bars of our current so called monsters, the likely ceiling is a long way away from where we are now and this means that in any season and at any point someone can leap from pack to the top of the tree, all it really takes is one game horse and even without that the odd miracle horse like ‘Belladona’ can still be bred. My NH team pretty much derived from one gamebred found at auction, many are only first generation breeds.

Yes there will always been a few who consistently stay at the top as at the end of the day they invest the time, and time spent remains the best way to crack the code in my view, but sensible breeding, racing and training for us manual trainers also plays a part in realising a horses potential. it is also true to say once you get there it will be easier to make it stick, but that will apply to everyone, just as everyone is probably only one horse away from G1 success. More than ever the game is about racing and trialling and less about stats and cloning. This is without doubt a massive improvement on previous leagues and I expect trainer retention will never be higher.

Great insight and thoughts Josh agree with you fully

I think the reason 2 people are dominating is simply because they worked it out quickest at the start, or got the monster game horse every stable needs. It is VERY EARLY in the league format, so obviously these things matter. However, over time I imagine that will change and more people will be getting closer. My first lot of uploads were absolute tosh, I fluked one good win, but even that was tailed off in every race after. I sent my horses to a game stallion called Lidar Somain and by week 5, I've uploaded 3 sprinters who are probably in the top 5 sprinters in the league (they don't do well at deauville so no comments after this weeks run please) . It shows how balanced it is, and how it is possible to get to the lead guys.

I think that's the point, the top 2 guys have dominated because they got it early, an flew out the blocks, They wont dominate the sprints going forward though, it will be much more spread out, and if someone gets the same in a miler, they maybe wont dominate that. They will still be top because they have balanced their game better, and they both seem to have very good breeding programmes obviously, but the more trainers that advance into the 2nd pool of trainers, the less the domination overall, an fro what I've seen, there are lot of decent horses been uploaded already in week 5

Going back to seeing all the stats, or TFF's being allowed takes all this away, it means people who enjoy playing the game, simply can't compete like now.

Well I was all for it ( my idea ) when u had the All camp or No camp and everyone was going of on one

I think the middle ground was always going to be the best way forward , u have enough information with the window with some stats and then u have to use u brain to come up with the rest . Its not just a case of the best going to the best and breeding the best.

I wouldn't change my jumps game with anyone else's , I still have my 4 best stallions Earls Brig- Furzen Hill - Another Schedule - Candy Glenn young enough 11 to have another good 7 or 8 years of them and most of my best mares are still in my barn so I have a good 7 or 8 years left with them .

On the flat I wouldn't change my Colzean family for anyone's and I think my other horses could improve now I bred a full potential horse in Conquest Ghostride , I wouldn't change my games for anyone's even if they have better horses than me .

No harm in asking your question Jango. Just remember that if you are going to suggest things in here you need a tin hat at the ready … mine is well battered Don't stop.

Like you and Steve (jalupen) I am really struggling on the flat but my jumpers are going okayish so I get your frustration. The best part about this new way of doing things is that the people at the top can't just keep reincarnating their superstar stallion and breeding with it for 700 years anymore. And the way the breeding works now Leon Josh or Paul could totally lose their position when their current lines die out if the new ones turn out not as good. It will fluctuate now instead of just everyone improving at the same rate. Some will go forward some will go back. It will change season to season. You will be back competing at top level before you know it.

Think of it like music … Leon and Paul are The Beatles and The Rolling Stones at the minute but Hendrix, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin are coming ready to catch up and overtake. And if Stu gets his act together and puts a full tream in we will have The Nolan Sisters as well

Hahahahahaha

More like in The Brotherhood of man or New Seekers i say Martin

I sympathise with you Jango for simply asking a question.
Most people responded correctly and gave their opinion.
But there are always 1 or 2 who want to start an argument which I can't understand.
I have no strong thoughts on your question so I will go along with the majority.
Keep calm everybody and carry on

Jango it takes some getting used to if you have just played with bars and ttfs before. But I found going on race times helped me a lot on the flat especially initially. So quick times in game and ck helped me improve my lines. And if you watch races you can normally pick up what some of the hidden stats are.

It is not a given that a good horse in CK or in the game for that matter will produce at stud. So there is always a chance that some lines may go dead. However I have 90 stallions and 130 mares plus the ones I buy for breeding every season to mitigate against this. It pays to always breed with the game horses as well no matter how deep your game as they can totally transform your lines

Although there are 2 trainers clear. There are a large number of G1 winning trainers this season, more than normal so I expect trainers will close the gap by next season

And to add too my earlier thoughts, I also think your struggles are more a temporary blip than anything else, both you and Steve Rann were late to the party and likely have not covered as much ground as some have, but your both way to accomplished trainers to be out of the running for long.

I swear by my assumption the horses people have at present are by SO6 standards garbage. All that time focusing on bars and breeding horses to maximise those bars then too bin the duds and rinse and repeat maximising your percentages by using the same horses over and over again. Were basically breeding blind compared to that.

If you still have your SO6 game, load it up and look at some of those Uber beasts you breed, look at the same bars you can still see in SO7, and do some mental comparisons. I did after the exhibitions when i really decided to play in anger and it helped provide some insight add to that the thinking that by breeding blind our horses and the overall league standard horses are likely not all that great, remember you could never find a gamebred sprinter with cruising burst and full speed in anything above 1m, bout as hard to find as Lord Lucan.

Bars are not everything, simply as from what you have you cannot see everything so they are an indicator at best, Belladona was only about 85% potential at peak, her speed and acceleration were around 70, but most of her bars were also high, unusually so, my league sprinters are actually my highest potential and speed horses and they are largely rubbish. Some of my NH horses are really slow ‘When the Demon Comes’ Floats Like A Sommerfly’ and Word To The Wise’, who have won a stack of races between them have speeds of around 40/50. ‘Return of The Royal’ is another but with 90 acceleration which you can see in races when he changes gears. Be a little more forgiving, consider that some run styles don’t actually need to look all that polished, and buy and breed with lots of gamebreds they are the key, even if lots of them are still busts, including some that were in game monsters.

I am not even sure how much game races and results really matter, I only watch the G1’s and not always those, but watch your trials as that’s where the league insights are.

You’ll have one season where everything changes, find one horse that literally wins every trial or one that add the finishing touches to what you already have and creates something that does the same. It’s just luck, time and a little bit of applied learning.

Thanks for the replies of encouragement, i am sure they are with good intention.
But please let me be clear. My post has zero to do with my current or future form and everything to do with the League (Flat races).

Clearly the overwhelming opinion is that the changes have been an improvement.
Its great that the trainers feel this way and is a good thing for the League.

I totally agree that breeding with the new format is so much more interesting and no longer a grind.

In my opinion the changes have done little to resolve what i thought, at the time they were being debated, were the dominance of some trainers and the encouragement of new trainers with some success.

My fear is that maybe a small handful of trainers might join in the feeding frenzy at the top of the table next season, but the gap to the mid level trainers will be even wider.

I'm also concerned that a brand new player in a season or two, will have an even bigger challenge to get a foothold in the league.
New or returning players this season had the same level start as everyone due to the refresh. That wont be the case going forward.
At least in the past a new player had the opportunity to look at the stats and work out if he had a half decent horse or a donkey.
And we still had at least 5 new trainers drop off this season.

So i guess if nothing else we have improved the breeding enjoyment which cant be a bad thing.
It will be an interesting next couple of seasons.

P.S. To avoid any confusion about where i stand....
If there was a vote tomorrow to bring back the stats i would vote "Yes".
If there was a vote to bring back TTF's i would vote "No"

Everything you mention is entirely possible and indeed plausible, when I was back in my ‘screw you SO7, bring back my tff’s’ phase I probably shared the same view, that this would be even harder for a new players as there is very little tangible tools for them to work with.

Having played with SO7 now with a little more energy I am less convinced this will be the outcome, though it is certainly possible. My reasons for this as follows:

1 - The bar is not set so high. As I said our horses are rubbish, we will almost certainly never have full speed 85% cruising burst monsters in this game, and even if by some act of god someone stumbles on one if it trials badly there as likely to sell it as breed it.

2 - The game does seem to create random monsters, such as Belladona. Likely bred around season 15-20 from a mare brought at the breeding mare auctions with nothing especially interesting about her, and a stud horse that I sold as I did not think it was good enough that went on to win 6 or 7 G1’s. And I know it was the mare that held the key.

3 - Once you have success it is fairly easy to get stuck, as your as likely to degrade your lines as you are to improve them as you cannot really see what your doing, either by breeding your own stock or by sprinkling in new gamebreds. I also think most of the top tier have experienced some horses that simply never produce at stud.

There will still be those who come at this half arsed and quit in a week as they don’t win everything, there be the same people who don’t trial or engage on the forums. And there will be others who are just unlucky and don’t get the game stock or miss it when it arrives, but I think with luck time and a little effort everyone now has a shout without making it a second job.

We’ll know in the next one or two league seasons.