Who are you to say how a player should look at the league. For most players their sole purpose is to win a handicap. We are not all freaks who play starters orders to breed a monster - some of us just want to be involved and win a race, any race. We are not bothered that Scatters has the best horses. You really need to be aware of other players aspirations. I really do fear for the league under your misguided leadership!

Wow Rich, you have possibly alienated the league's biggest customer base in that statement. Round of applause goes to you.

I was one of the many under the, obviously, misguided impression that you wanted to make the league 'more realistic' so you introduced the 3-run rule so that there would be a set number of maidens each week over random distances so that people could run their horses 2 or 3 times and then enter handicaps and play in the league against like minded, competitive people who don't have the time, or inclination to enter the group races or play the game like someone like Scatters does. Or maybe they're like Ryan (Hurricane, I hope you don't mind me using you as an example). If there was this system last season he could have used it to place a few horses in low grade races and see where his horses stood against the others, he would have had a chance to learn about the league without the gutting disappointment New Approach felt when his Oaks horse flopped in it's début. Admittedly N/A ALWAYS would have entered that horse in an Oaks trial/a competitive maiden had there been one. But at least he would have had an option to take it slow with her and maybe work up the ranks like real new trainers have to.

The league shouldn't just be about testing your horses in G1's against seasoned players where 9 times out of 10 you're going to get whipped. It should be about having a go at the big races with your best and brightest talents but also having another option for those not so brave, or those who want to plug along quietly picking up a little handicap here and there and maybe, in time, working their way from winning a 0-80 handicap, to winning the Ebor, to maybe even winning the Noel Murless (sp?), or even better the Irish St Ledger.

I would find the league much more appealing if it worked like that, and I'm sure I can't be alone.

In that comment Rich I think you have shot yourself, and your league in the foot. I'm sure it won't make any difference, because I doubt enough people read these 'off-threads', but maybe, maybe they will and they will feel offended by your comments like I, and others have, and feel disheartened that the league and it's president has alienated, and thoroughly disappointed them and not lived up to all the league could have, and should have been.

N/A rigging the handicaps is not the way to go, I agree there should be maidens to enter your horses in, but not every week, so you have to plan when you might want to upload a horse. But in order for this to work properly you NEED A HANDICAPPER. From Rich's comment, highlighted above I see why he hasn't appointed one. He doesn't want the league to be based on handicaps, he wants it to be a big list of group races where the majority of trainers are gutted because their horses aren't all they lived up to be in the CK, and because there was nowhere else to enter them.

Supercat

I think maybe you have gone a little far in hammering rich on this, I agree with the statement as i think he meant it.
To me he was trying to say everyone is wanting to breed something great(that is definately true), when we race the horse we thought was great in the league in group company and it proves not as good as we thought, then the handicaps become a route we can go down.
He mentions artificially lowering a horses handicap mark to gain a win in a future race , which to be fair if thats the only way to gain a win in the league, i would rather not bother!!!

I dont think he's alienated himself or shot himself or HIS LEAGUE in the foot(its our league i thought), the schedule is not perfect, you cant please all the people all of the time, I was against his ideas at first, i then came to the mind set that he put himself forward for it and he's doing the best he can.

The statement you have made has the scope to create splits in the league AGAIN and cause friction on this forum and as a moderator I think its something you should be able to recognise!!!!

I for one think you may owe rich an appology on this one.

This couldn't be further from the truth.



You can absolutely do this already. There are plenty of maidens available to get a mark. The last sentence is what I want to focus on, time. Realism is good, but this is not 100% realistic, there isn't the number of races available to achieve this. There is no "taking it slow", your best 1m4f horse will be bettered almost certainly within 5 seasons, that's how the game works. The three runner rule exists so those trainers who have few uploads aren't constantly overtaken by those bashing through the season, those who take their time are rewarded so that the winners of a handicap (and this is just a big a win as a G1 victory) are the deserved winners.



This is exactly how it works at the moment and I agree. There are handicaps and there is absolutely no issue with entering them. But specifically targetting them, i.e running your horse to get an artificially low mark does the exact opposite of what you are saying and is the entire purpose of the new rules. I want handicap winners to be the lesser trainers, who have played the league properly entering their horses in the best knowledge that they can win and are entering the handicaps because that is their level. Not a good trainer entering an above average horse in a handicap to pick up as easy win.



I don't want a league "based on handicaps" that is ridiculous, real horse racing isn't based on handicaps, the horses that go to stud aren't the champion handicappers. Handicaps are there as a catchment. Always have been, always will be. And of course people will be disappointed if they lose but that only accentuates the elation when they win. Unfortunately, there can only be one winner and more losers.

Can you explain why we need a handicapper? What you have said above doesn't equal a need for a handicapper.

It is a hugely time consuming job, I have proved that it doesn't have much of an improvement over the game mechanics.

If I hated handicaps so much I'm going to have a helluva boring rest of the season because that is most definitely my level.

edit: I also have to say, I think the season has been pretty good so far. 28 individual winners, considering the lack of handicaps so far and the dominance of Scatters' horses I think this is really excellent so congratulations to everyone taking part. Best of luck to those that haven't, now that the handicaps are beginning in earnest you should have a great chance to get off the mark.

The spirit has also been really good, handicaps will always be a contentious issue but I genuinely believe the current setup is the fairest it has ever been and the appointment of a handicapper will simply create the same issues with favouritism and human error that cropped up last season. If everyone chucks in their hand and plays as openly and honestly as they can the handicaps will work.

I actually had a comment wrote out earlier regarding what rich said about handicaps being the last resort but decided not to post it at the time, not wanting to start arguments, but its seems some ppl have took offence to it.

I didnt really take offence to it or think that it was meant to offend anyone and i dont think you had to edit it rich!

Rich said everyone is striving to get a better horse which is right, but realistically for some, myself included, its unlikely we will get to the level of scatters, ryan or kenny and if there isnt races available to accomodate lesser horses, they are forced to run behind scatters horses and will likely be hammered by the rating system, thus making handicaps even harder to win. Because of the gulf in class, alot of ppl will have to accept that handicaps are their main target. Rich included lol

I think hes done a good job so far, and as others have said, you cant please everyone, its just trying to find the right balance and it might take a few seasons. Ive said it about 20 times but i do think we need more maidens.

Suppose its down to the player, accept handicaps or play the game like a demon lol I will keep trying to improve my horses anyway because ive had some go quite close in the good races but a length and a half seems to be worth 500 hours of gameplay lol

And supercat, Oh So Sharp running 5th in a hot race first time out wasnt exactly a shocking flop. She hit the front 3 out and had nothing left. Ive found that certain horses can improve from there first run in the league and im still confident of a big run in the Oaks. She has been wrote off now as no chance but ive reason to believe she is better than she showed there. Thats all im saying....

this is my level too..h'caps

i agree with most of things done or brought in this season

2-3 runs to qualify for h'caps is a good step as some of us aint never gonna trail the heights of Gp1's etc myself one of those few

we cant all service season after season to find good top horses
not all of us have the time or maybe able to do it for various reasons

so therefore a majority will persue this direction in the league

i count myself as one of the majority...

long gone has the time i was expecting a lot from my horses
im mostly pleasantly surprised at a win..i dont expect them anymore
im happy to do my own thing and twiddle-de dee myself along each league season as my time is limited

im saddened by all the discontent in the league amd wished we all got along even out of only necessity???

my two bobs worth anyway

Paul(LR)

its like people have to read over and over their posts before posting it incase offence is taking. as if the league is treading on egg shells.

the league is fine, enjoyable. it will be even better next season and rich knows it will be. he is aware of some flaws. yeah it would be ideal to have a handicapper but it is too big a job to be worth it. race numbers could be increased tho in my opinion

I agree with Supercat 100%.

I make no bones about the fact I am very disappointed with the league as it stands. Naturally, a few players are enjoying the competition, Scatters, Hurricane etc are quite rightly enjoying the fruit of their labours and good luck to them.
I am willing to write a new UK schedule, and do the handicapper job for this league only. No doubt some people will throw scepticism on this remark. I was the handicapper for both the US and the NH league last season and did that job for nine weeks before the league imploded. Obviously it is too late to put this into practice this year. If accepted I will have it in place for next season.
I can't say fairer than that.

I can see trouble brewing again with this thread, the president is
the president and we should respect his decisions, I am enjoying the league, I have only won 1 race in almost 60 races I have entered and placed in approx 5.
I am miles away from the level of most league players but I enjoy been involved, it's a game, there are no prizes, it's free to enter and a lot of people put a lot of time into making it happen!!!
So instead of moaning let's enjoy it for what it is, A GAME, it can never be totally realistic, it would take far to much work/time to setup and run.

It's a game......it's a game......it's a game

Okay thanks for your opinion, lets see what the majority of players say and take it from there.

Hi steve
I actually posted my last post before your second post offering your help, I think that any offer of help should be considered, but supercats post was nearly all negative comments about the way rich has set up and is running HIS league!!!!!
I think as a moderator of this forum she could have made her opinions known without the all the negativity and well it was a post that could create divisions within the league again exactly as last season!!!!!
Mwesty and herself were put in place as moderators when trouble flared last time, since that time mike has ceased using the forum and now supercat posts something that goes against what a moderator of a forum should be posting.
Just my opinion, just like to see every getting along!

Scott

Hi Steve,

I think you did a fantastic job last season and appreciate the work you put in. As far as tweaking the UK schedule and being handicapper I think you would do a fantastic job. I'm sure Rich hasn't said no to your request, I think he just wants to wait till this season is nearly over, maybe sooner. Prehaps he is waiting to get a better overview of everything that is happening etc.

I just also want to say that I'm not in regular correspondance with Rich, I only communicate via the forums and get all the gist from the forums apart form TOM issues and commentaries.

I'm sure he will respect your imput.

Cheers Steve.

Same here Scatters regarding above , From what i could see the league was going well till after the resent races, there has to be an end to this soon otherwise it will get to the point of no return with insults being slung around and its just no good to the league community, There is a issue lets get it sorted.