My Trials

This is the trialling method I use for the league and the times below are the times I get in the ck with my best horses. Don’t be discourages about how far off you are to these times as there are plenty of handicap races to compete in!! But if you want to know how your horse might compare to that group quality race horse in the league then this is the place. Please note that there are many factors involved and these times alone may not be an accurate gauge to how your horse will perform. You won’t really know till it races a few times in the league to get a feel of how good it will be. Some of the factors involved that are out side of our control is whether there is a pace maker or not in the actual league race. If there isn’t then times will vary and generally be slower. So please note that times are just a general guide and don’t be discouraged. So like in real life you have group quality horses and many many more ordinary horses. Also note that I will not be competing in handicap races so you will most probably be avoiding my horses. But if you have a good one bring it on!!

I do all my trials in the ck with the following selected:

1. Location is UK
2. Racecourse is Royal Ascot
3. Going is Good (important to note here is that your horse might be better over GF, GS, Soft or even Heavy going so don’t be discouraged!!!)
4. Age is always 3yo+ even if trailing 4yo+ horses because they will eventually meet the 3yo’s somewhere down the line so the weight needs to reflect that.
5. Sex is open company
6. Race type is G1 (because this is what I’m always aiming for)


I always use a pace maker in my time trials so these times reflect that. I trial several times to get an average as the wind factor plays a role in times so I try to get trials with no wind effect if possible. When trailing beyond 1600m the bends come into play so horses out wide are a little disadvantaged hence also why I trial a few times to get a better average. I never use more that 10 horses to try and minimise the effect on horses that are drawn out wide.

3yo’s

1000m – 57.5s to 57.0s
1200m – 1.10.50s to 1.10.0s
1400m – 1.23.80s to 1.23.30s
1600m – 1.38.80s to 1.38.40s
2000m – 2.7.50s to 2.7.0s
2400m – 2.33.50s to 2.33.0s
2800m – 3.5.80s to 3.4.80s
3200m (I’m not sure if my 2 milers are group quality as this is my weakest distance as I am competing for the first time in the league at this distance) – 3.40.0 + or – 1 second.

If others want to reveal there times please fell free to add them here too. Just remember to indicate track, going, weight etc.

Happy racing!!!

John

Thanks John, good and interesting read! Also, nice to judge my horses against yours Only compared our 5f horses, but we seem quite similar on times, but mine are faster on all weather quite significantly or better on soft turf, so i'm pleased with our time comparison on good ground!

I'll put an average, rounded, time figure up later on today when i've sat down and shot the weak ones.

Liam

hey John, I dont have any times to report as of yet, but thanks for the post. I know some people dont' like to reveal too much before the season kicks off. but even without the times, a guide to your trialling methods is probably good for alot of people! I might have a few sprinters that are semi-competitive, but don't expect anything else to get out of the handicaps!

anyway, I have a question you might have an opinion on. what exactly do you use for a pacemaker. for short distances it doesn't make much difference, but once I go to 1m2 or above if I just use pacemakers that are ideal distance of 1m-1m2 a certain horse will generally come out on top wiht all my 1m2 horse being competitive with each other. But say I run another trial where I include 5f,6f,7f,1m and 1m2 pacemakers, another horse generally comes out on top, with most of my 1m2 horses being completely blown away early in the race and unable to get back into it. This behaviour is even more extreme when I go to distances of 2m+.

Do you think this second trial is completely unrealistic, esp for 2m+ as no horse in the league is likely to go off at the pace of a 5f in the early part of the race?? Anyone else have any thoughts on this??

I have found similar outcomes in races around 1m2f+, as I too put in horses which are short distance horses. Though, I have found that if you trial 4,5,6 times then cream will rise to the top. Look out for the horses running on and getting into places then eliminate the short distance horses and re-run the trials.

I also find a good indication of a true stayer is the speed indicator at top left. If the indicator is high entering the final furlong, then this is an ideal trips. This is because in some trials you'll get a good time recorded, but in a proper race the horse purely doesn't stay (the good time is probably due to the pacemakers).

Hi Liam, you are correct the good times are due to the pacemaker being in the race!!

Bilbo, about short distances, what if you had all "closers" and "even pace" horses? They would struggle to get into their preferred position as a number of them would have to lead then give the lead up to get into their preferred position and so on. So even in short distances you need a pacemaker.

In my trials I have found that a "Races Handy" horse is suitable as a pace maker. I say this because when I export all my horses the preferences I use are always "Challenge Early" and "Don't Trail" on all my exports without exception!!! So a "races handy" horse can lead and win as was found out last season in the league. I didn't have even one "force the pace" horse in my stable but a lot of "race handy" types took up the lead. That's why a lot of my runners where storming away at the 800 to 600m mark only to just win by a small margin in the end. This has the benafit of first being up near the lead or leading and second less likely of finding any trouble in running because it was out near the front anyway. A lot of trainers were fustrated with their races because of blocked runs etc last season.

I use a reasonably fast 1600m horse as a pacemaker for 10f to 3600m. This has worked for me. Even if you have a muddling race in the league at least you have the "Challenge Early" preference so it can take off sooner and have a chance to win. The "Don't trail" preference is so that it dosen't stay last and makes an attempt to get a little closer to win.

Hope I haven't caused to much confusion.

Cheers

I trial a little bit differently...which might be where I'm going wrong!

I trial 5f-7f at Newmarket and another track I can't remember which has no draw bias and no bend (Redcar?)

At 8f I trial at Ascot and Newmarket.

10f I trial at Ascot, Sandown and Meydan (the big 10f races)

12f I trial at Ascot, Epsom and Longchamp.

14f I trial at Donny and York.

2m I trial at Ascot.

As bilbo says though, the pace in the longer races is a problem. In the league last season there were very few front runners at those distances and the result was a bit of a lottery. You could see the cream rise to the top when there was a strong pace.

That is why I am against having pacemakers run in the league, yes the best horse doesn't always win but how boring is that?!

Having said that, I have a very nice hold up 10f horse so if one of the other league members wants to sacrifice a stable slot to upload a pacemaker for me let it be known that you will be handsomely rewarded. I'm talking Sepp Blatter, brown envelope, hush hush levels of rewards.

Rich, I have a 10f colt that races handy and loves to lead so you have what you desire. I pray that you have good running in traffic though because I would love to see you win.

I remember Cigar, wish Jeune could race against him. He was a 2400m horse wasn't he??

yep, you're right about closers in short races, forgot to mention that most of my sprinters are race handy... so that was why pacemakers didn't make a difference

thanks for the answers. haven't played much since last season. hoping to get a few seasons in now and get to the trials! hopefully these snippets of insider info will help me!!

Rich: what happens if/when Johns pacemaker holds out to the line in front of your closer? do you get a refund on your brown envelope

have never heard of anyone doing this john, l myself wouldnt use this but great to see you show some of your winning tactics mate, very fair play to you. l will only be entering 5f - 1m horses as that is what l had focused at but to be honest put game down about 4 weeks ago again just cant get back in to it

No refunds, you mess with me you'll end up in the new Qatari stadiums...as part of the brickwork!

I mean a proper pacemaker anyway, not one of Scatters pikey front runners setting easy fractions then getting first run on everyone In seriousness though, your horses have to be so good to race handy and win, I think that closers with clear runs have a massive advantage, makes it exciting anyway.

Cigar was immense, he was a 2400m/1m4f horse, would love it if SO4 was backward compatible and we could have a race.

Common Mark, you can make this happen!!!!!

You got me beat by a way John, which was totally expected tbh. Cannot expect to get close after 1 season and just shows your hard work, will also say lm aiming at hcaps rather than the big Group races but my best times are here with your above conditions:-

5f - 58.11
6f - 1.11.15
7f - 1.24.34
1m - 1.40.30

Those comments are very patronizing. Very off putting for new players joining the league.

We all know he is a great player of the league and has the best horses though, he's trying to encourage people not to be unhappy with their horses if they aren't similar times and advising them that they can be competitive in handicaps.

I dont think John was trying to be patronising Jimmy, just honest mate. Last season his horses were better than ours by miles (with a few exceptions). I think he was just trying to be helpful.