I definitely won't enter if these changes go through, this is a backward step in my view, the league setup was at its best when there was UKRA, USRA, and NHC with over 60 races per week, this was how it was when I first joined and it didn't need changing from that, the league has gone downhill ever since and this proposal will make it even worse.

Must admit l think the rules you are putting in place is making it a league for a more experienced/advanced league players. Last year l thought the variety of people actually winning races and all the posts how new players where enjoying it so much actually having a chance to win you are taking that away. Hcap races are a must in my opinion and if you say 15 max stable size then any filly/colt only races will have to be scrapped. I thought the work on the schedule last year people made was done to make it a more even chance of EVERYONE having a chance of winning??

I really want to enter the league for the first time but i cannot compete with these people times i mean i am way off those times 4 to 5 seconds off..so i dont know i will think about it because i dont think i even got a shot winning one race..

Will have my 2p say on things, even though il not be entering the league any more.

The current schedules are spot on, some more tweaks to them both would make them even better. I would reduce the races each week, to many imo.

15 horses does seem low, 20 sounds a better bet.

Are you wanting to reduce the work load rich?? It's seems that way, which is understandable.

Workload is fine, in fact keeping things as they are would keep the workload less.

What I want to do is make a schedule that doesn't make it harder for people to win races, I am a little concerned by people who are asserting the opposite as fact. If a race is only open to trainers who haven't had a win yet, explain to me how that is as hard a race to win as say a G1?



No, the early season handicaps can still be run just later in our season (or instead of the Lincoln we have another famous mile handicap race). This will force horses to have had more runs previously and be on a fair mark. There will not be a handicapper next season, Steve is not involved and he was probably the best option, even then his handicapping rules were just to whack winners up a load, losers down a fair bit and see how that plays out. It was only slightly better than no handicapper at all so what I am suggesting is a different approach, to help people like yourself compete against other people who play like you do and who don't have the time to bash through the seasons.

USRA won't be returning, the races were boring taking place mainly on the dirt and the draw effect was ridiculous. Thanks for your comments dicey but if that is your opinion then I respectfully disagree. The current schedule is better than how it was and I think everyone would agree with that.

If the stable size was 15 then people would have to choose what type of horse to enter and maybe not take some at a certain distance it is true. With 20 it may still be the case but I think this will help the trainers with not so good horses, they may choose to enter a 3 year old 10f specialist when a better trainer drops a 1m4f horse back in distance due to lack of options.

Similarly for NH, with fewer options we are likely to see the same horses compete in both the Gold Cup and King George rather than having a big enough stable to accomodate options for both races.

As I say, this is early stages but with no handicapper the temptation for people to game the system, running a 5f horse over 6f once then dropping it back to 5f for a handicap, it's too easy. The other option if keeping the current schedule, is to limit the distances that horses run over so that 5f horses can only run over 5f for their whole league career. This is the only way I can see to make handicaps fair.

one distance rule would stop alot of problems Rich that is a good idea
if you declare a horse to be a 5f horse then they HAVE to race at 5f
that will cut out alot of hassel

i only started to trial a week ago and have taken over a second of my best sprint times
its about getting good breeding lines on the mares side and the stallions side yes you need a bit of time
but not 1000s of hours
i put alot of time into trying to catch thunder & Scatters who were well ahead of me because
i only competed seriously in the last season of so4 so i was well behind but got alot of successs

as Rich said you can win races without putting 1000's of hours in

Rich it is up to you after all you do all the donkey work i would offer my services and so would others I rather keep what we had last season but trainers should be told not to enter horses in handicaps knowing the hores iare over the rated band.

Steve i thought did a good job in my first season but last season jumped ship and that was when it went downhill on the flat side if you want to change the flat side thats ok with me as i wont bother with a Flat stable the jumps have always been the better side of the league to me.

I'm sure if Mark Presscot was a trainer in the online league he would of been banned from all courses as he always got his horses well handicapped running them at the wrong distance and i dont know why this is such a big problem unless something happen before i started playing in the league.

I just hope you leave the Jump side alone we did have to many flat races last season sometimes 35 if the jumps is reduced to just 15 races a week you will be getting horses running at the wrong diatance more often we should be trying to build the online league with players like Hemz and scatters no longer playing we might even struggle to get enough trainers anyway and if we are going down the elite trainers mode where the trainers who breed monsters to win all the Group races other trainers will just think whats the point and will drop out after a few weeks.

This is just my opinion...

- 15 horses = good because it allows trainers to strategize where their horse will run.

- 30 horses = bad because the top trainers will just dominate each race.

- few races = trainers who think they have no chance wont bother with the league since what is the point if they cant win.

- lots of races (same as last year) = more options for trainers to target to get a win.

- restict horses to 1 distance = top trainers will dominate since they will have a horse for each distance.

- no distance restriction = more clashes of champions from different distance. I'd like to see the 2000 Geneas running against the Derby winner. Also a possible triple crown winner.

- maiden thru-out the season is a good idea (since SO5 is fairly new I'd like the see new players be allowed to enter mid season so they can get an idea of what the league is about)

- unraced horses should not be allowed in G1's

No mention of date? When does the league start?

BTW as of right now, I won't be entering the league next season. Maybe later on I might join but I just dont have the time like before. So goodluck to all with the new season.

Handicaps were wrong last season, some horses were not rated low enough and some weren't high enough. This was a separate issue from horses running over different distances in their maidens.


Any new trainers should NOT be put off by anything from last season or the possible changes for the first season of SO5. If you search for a thread I started last season then read that thoroughly regarding breeding and trialing.

Anyway its here

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5713

Im away travelling for a couple more months but will be back for the league and can also help out new trainers with any questions you might have. I might be slow replying but I will get back to you in the end. PM me if you wish. More trainers is better for the league, we had loads of new trainers who did well last season and nearly all won a race. Dont be put off by other trainers trial times either, we all have to start somewhere and some can put in 20 hours a week and some might not even manage that in a month. But Rich will try to make the league playable for everyone, he's a good guy.

I agree with NH, I don't think you can get away with 15 races a week over 12 weeks.

I also agree with you about handicaps, if you had to race a horse 3 times to get a handicap mark in the league then racing it over an inadequate distance would be a good way to get a low handicap mark. Some people don't like that at all though and want horses to run on their merits every time.

Basically what I want is almost a Division 1 for top trainers and a Division 2 for the others. This way there is a challenge for the top trainers who are good at the game and put a lot of time in but also competition for those who play it slowly to have a chance to win against each other. The challenge is to fit that clear distinction into a racing environment. Handicaps haven't achieved that so I want to try something else that will. Also I think it feels a little hollow to people who run their horse 2/3/4 times, see it get battered and then put it in a handicap to see it win. I think people would justifiably be happier and more proud if their horse went in at level weights.

Part of the reason for reducing the number of horses is to encourage those with less time to enter. If you've only got to find 15 horses to enter and nominate 10 of those horses each week it's not going to take long at all.

what about some division just for gamebreds then very little effort or time needed and everyone has a good chance
and then normal lge for top trainers

I just want the jump side left alone lol i dont really care about the flat side i will not be entering the flat side anymore as it seems to be aimed for the trainers who breed monsters to break times at all distances and Dominate all the group races and with there being no handicaps until at least six weeks thats a long time to try and get competitive in Handicaps because even in the maidens my poor nags would trial in last lol.

The more I read about the proposed changes the more I think it might work and as far as I am concerned it is definitely worth trying. I would certainly welcome the schedule being aimed more at the most common distances. The 15 horse stable might also be quite good as I think i only uploaded around 20-25 and didnt use some of them more than once, and considering it was my first season I didnt alright mainly because I focussed on the ones that had a chance. Similarly I think setting the distances at the start and not varying from them will be a good thing. At the end of the day the league is meant to be about the best horses from everyone's stable running against each other to see who has the best horses (whether it be in a G1, hcap, maiden). People who want to try and achieve a favourable hcap mark so that they can win a race seem to lose sight of this. Yes it might be more realistic, but this is a game.

Overall, I think it is worth a try. It might work perfectly, it might not. If it become too hard for newer/smaller trainers to compete, then it will have to be adjusted but we wont know for sure until it has been tried.

i love the idea of two divisions rich..one for players that play it slowly and one for the top trainers or even what paul suggested a league for gamebreds only becoz it takes less time..having two different division would be the best im entering for sure..i hope it works out..