Hello chaps and ladies,

I want to take the league in a slightly different direction for SO5. The overall aim is for a more compact, quick, accessible and banter filled league. SO4s experiment was to reduce the number of weeks in a season and I think this is better but this was at the expense of a LOT of races and I think the train of thought, the forum discussions got a bit lost. A lot of trainers felt like they couldn’t continue because there was a lot of effort involved with nominating horses and the like and with all the rules around handicaps I think this put a lot of new starters off.

This plan is in it's early stages and I want to work with everyone to create a league that fits for everyone. I appreciate that some people probably like the complexity, the number of races, the portfolio of options and I want to keep them happy whilst enticing some new members (of which there seem to be a number of them this game).

For this I am suggesting a few major changes:

1) Stable size: 15

2) Races per week: 15 (although there may be 2 divisions of one race if the field size is big enough)

3) G1 races will have a maximum field size of 14 (with notable exceptions like the Derby and Arc), lowest rated horses won’t qualify. If there are enough lower rated horses entered the race will be run as a G2 with ½ the prize money.

4) Handicap races will not start in earnest until after week 6 when most horses will have had 3 runs. There will generally only be one or two feature handicaps per distance (i.e 6f Wokingham, 7f Bunbury Cup, 1m2f John Smiths Cup etc.) to avoid the temptation to set aside horses for a handicap bid. There's no point in having handicaps if they are just used to give an advantage to good horses. Conditions races and maidens will continue alongside the Group races right to the end of the season to give horses without a win a chance outside of handicaps.

I appreciate this might make it harder for certain trainers to win a race but I kind of want to bring that back. If you want to win a race easily then just play the main game, you’ll be winning 30 G1s a year within 5 seasons. If you want to test your superstar to the limit, join the league. The Trainers Championship will be based, as in reality, on Prize Money earned but, of course, winning a race will be good enough for most.

I will put together a balanced preliminary barebones schedule the aim of which will ultimately see good horses racing against each other and the not so good horses racing each other. This will outline what distance/age/colt/filly etc. will be eligible and we will try and fit this around a real life schedule of races. I would like people to say what races they would like to see (especially our friends from around the world, I understand that it isn’t realistic for a horse to turn up at the Royal Meeting, Spring Carnival, Dubai Festival and finish off in the Far East but unfortunately this isn’t real life, I don’t have £100bn in my bank account from breeding horses...).

Lastly there will be no rules regarding first time out in a G1, number of runs to gain a handicap mark etc. in order to keep things simple. However, bearing in mind you haven’t got a big stable, if you don’t get a run into your horse before the Guineas it may not be rated high enough to qualify so you will have to give it a prep run in the Greenham or the Craven and hope it runs well. That means a trainer who uploads a purely 7f horse may have an advantage in the Greenham but not in the Guineas. Similarly, if you want to race in the Derby then a prep race in the Dante or a spin around Lingfield is almost a necessity.

The season will be split into two parts, the first 5 weeks will be various 4yo+ races at different levels and the 3yo classic generation will compete against each other culminating in Royal Ascot. The following weeks races will take into consideration a Global Carnival of championship races from Melbourne to Longchamp, Newmarket to Sha Tin.

What would I like from you?

Firstly, your thoughts, comments and, if necessary, fears. Secondly, what races you would like to see in the league. The only proviso is that the course must be in the game. I'm looking for foreign recommendations and also big handicaps.

i found last year managing 30 horses was to much so happy for 15 and it means less work putting a team together
it will be your best horse for each distance not 2 or 3.

i really have no preferences schedule wise will go what you all think as long as main meetings like
royal ascot dubai world cup festival breeders cup are included.

So the new season will be aimed at the cream of the crop and will be tough but at least we all starting from same place

I think 20 is a better number than 15 especially as the fields in NH aren't that big as it is. Like all the other ideas.

Will you be having NH races as well as flat Rich? Sorry if its a simplistic question, I haven't dabbled in the league before.

I must say i am disappointed in this Rich i will not be taking part in the new league set up i dont have time to spend hours on the game everyday. Like you said if your going to make it harder for people/Trainers like me who only win handicaps there is no point in me putting a stable in i know there are a few trainers who play this game just for the league but there are other people who play it as a pastime and hobby like me who are now not going to be able to play in the online League i stopped playing in the Flat half way through last season due to no Handicapper and horses who where winning group races still running and winning of low ratings in handicaps.

This is a step back you should be aiming to attract new players to this game but this seems a step back which after a few weeks only the Elite trainers will still be playing as others will see like i did with my flat horses last season i was years behind the top trainers in breeding.

I dont understand why the Stable size as to change either especially if a load of new trainers decide to join and why only 15 races a week this again seems a step back i know running the league is a tough job and you do a great job but this will mean less variety of races each week.

This is my opinion rich which you wanted and i am going to give you my honest opinion i think the stable size should stay i think the amount of races on just the flat could be reduced to the same size as the NH side the variety of races including the all Handicaps should stay i think more maiden races during the all season could be included and there should be a handicapper for both Flat and Jumps side as last seasons Flat was just a farce.

I like the sound of the proposals. 15 probably sounds about right as I ended up barely running some of mine last time, but then again I dont trial over all the distances.

The only worry I would have over it being too competitive is that down the line when new trainers join in, it will require a lot of work for them to get up to speed. I agree that in some ways that should be the case and shouldnt really be an issue for the first SO5 league but it might be a bit off putting further down the line.

I was thinking the exact same thing. 20 horses seems an ideal # of horses. I also like all of the other ideas, except maybe unraced horses entering G1 races.

The suggested stable size is too small especially considering the effort that goes into building a stable, the suggested number of races is also not enough, is there a staffing problem? The league is getting smaller, too small, won't be good if the number of players increases. Do like the idea of the winner being based on prize money though, couldn't understand how the existing system worked, also like the idea of removing race entry restrictions. In anycase should these suggested changes go through how long will it take to implement, mainly the changes required to TOM?

I agree with this, for us strugglers these proposals will make life difficult, however this may entice some of the top players back, I think the league has suffered due to their absence.

Unraced horses running in G1's is a no no for me but all the other idea's look
good

Unraced horses will only get into Group 1s if there is less than 14 horses with ratings which shouldnt happen too often. When there is a space available though, and numerous unraced horses are entered, who gets the spot? Would have to be a draw made or something.

The effort that goes into building a stable is precisely the reason why the limited number is available, this should mean that top trainers don't have an arsenal of horses, each as good as the other, but with half the stable only being targeted at handicaps.

The second point is about handicaps, they are held up to be the only way that certain people can win races. This is nonsense, even with a handicapper, if a horse doesn't run it's race and finishes 10 lengths off the pace the game and the handicapper will have to work off the facts (in fact a handicapper would probably give it a bigger advantage than the game). The presence of handicaps themselves creates the problem and that is why conditions races (for trainers with <X amount of wins, or races for horses that haven't won yet) will be more prevalent. There absolutely won't be 10 G1s each week and 5 other races.

I also want to get away from the "variety" of races, I don't think it is a good thing, the most common distances are 5/6/7/8/10/12/14/16/20 furlongs. These will be the focus and then there will be occasional races over 9/11/13f etc.

If you didn't compete in the season after the handicapper left then how can you say it was a farce? It actually went fairly well from what those competing in the handicaps told me.

The league will be as big as the number of people who enter. Outside of G1s as many divisions of the race as necessary can be run which could swell the number of races from 15 to 30, but if you have 30 races, of varying handicap grades, of slightly varying distances, of varying courses it is hard for people to get into. It's too complicated.

I should also add that I play this game as a hobby, I have a full time job in finance working a lot of hours per week so if I get to play 1 hour a day during the week I'm lucky, I played 20 seasons of SO4 in total and won the Derby so it is possible.

This will also apply to NH although with there being 2 codes there may need to be more races, something like 20. People who have competed in the league in the past will remember this is how it used to be and there was a lot more fun back then.

hi im just a beginner and it will be my first time playing in the league..i like the new rules it does not seem that complicated and i think 15 would be a good number because it wont be a hassle trying to get 30 horses ready for the league...i would love to see the us triple crown in it as im an american and love us racing...one question thouugh rich would i have any chance at winning a race at all this season becoz my times are fseconds off everyone elses bassically..just want to know if i got a chance becoz if i dont i would be wasting my time building a league team..thnks

with the new rules it will be alot harder winning races but it can be done

My point is rich the league should be run to suit everyone who wants to play in it actual stable size or races per week doesn't matter but if you play like i do and play it properly through each season without getting rid of horses in your stable that dont win everyone single group race like some players do who skip through a entire season in a couple of hours which takes me days my horses are going to be way off other trainers trialing times.

Looking at the trial times already put up it is pointless for me to put a flat stable up as i'm still seconds of some peoples trialing and last season many trainers moaned about trainers entering horses above the h'cap rated bracket and it happen all season and with Handicaps not coming until after week 6 which is half way through the season seems a bit to far in in my veiw so we will be running on the all weather for six weeks until Doncaster and the Lincoln H'cap ?.