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National Hunt Breeding
http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7690		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  leonvr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  National Hunt Breeding
This is the most open season in the National Hunt history. With both Hemz and Jamie not entering, there will be good opportunities for new players to the league to win group races. I have entered the league since SO2 and have found that the NH league gives a better reward for less game time. I managed to win the Grand National with a horse bred after just 15 seasons. The top flat trainers ( Jamie is an exception ) have also struggled to make much of an impact in the NH league.

Here are some tips. If any other players want to add to this it would be great.

Peak Ages

There are exceptions but in general this applies
2 milers 5/6 year olds
2m4 to 3m3 6/7 year olds
3m5 to 4m4 7/8/9/10 year olds

Don't bother trialling your 4 year olds in anything except the bumper and juvenile trials. I find it's the equivalent of running a 2 year old flat horse in open company

Distances

I trial at the following distances
Hurdles 2m 2m4 and 3m
Chase 2m 2m5 3m 3m2 3m5 4m and 4m4(Aintree)
4 year olds 2m and Bumpers

Courses

I trial at Cheltenham / Punchestown / Ascot / Aintree

Which Game

You have 3 options. A combined NH and flat game or NH only or Irish NH only

Unfortunately playing a flat based only game will give you very little success. The best NH horses are very often not the best flat horses. I have found that odd distance horses 7f / 9f / 11f perform really well in NH

Personally I play 2 games and transfer 6 horses from each game each season. 6 3 year olds from the flat game. They will still arrive as 4 year olds in the NH game. And 6 3 year olds from the NH game. They will also arrive as 4 year olds.

Starting Off

I normally start off playing a flat game and then after about 20 seasons transfer in 6 flat horses. They need to have good or at worst average jumping. You will find these details in the adjust training screen. Ignore the jumping bar it seems to have no affect. Horses with good jumping sometimes have nothing in this bar. What you do want are horses with a high jumping speed potential bar.

The other important factor is that horses ideally need to prefer soft ground. The majority of races in NH league are run on soft ground. So exporting firm ground horses to you national hunt game is just a waste of time.

To get money is easy just enter your flat horse in a group or listed race first time out. It will start at 66/1 and you will clean up. In the first few season I breed my imports with all the horses in t breeding barn that have a soft or good or very soft ground description. You will get mostly rubbish but you should also get one or two good ones which should kick start your breeding

Breeding

My breeding is different from other suggestions on here, but I constantly get group 1 winners.
Stuff I do

1. I breed speed with stamina to get good national hunt horses.
2. I check the performance of sire/ mares progeny in the CK and if the horses perform well I concentrate on breeding with these sires / mares. I save the tff files every season. So I can get good duplicate mares into the barn if need be.
3. The best horses to breed from are those that produce the best CK horses not those that perform the best in the CK or the game. My best sire has won only 1 group 1 race
4. If a horse doesn't produce any good offspring stop breeding with it. It doesn't matter how good it was.
5. The most important thing to look out for is the performance of a sire/mares progeny. You can get to this screen in the breeding barn.
6. I make sure that I keep my soft lines going
7. I look for inbreeding. Not immediate like brother/ sister but 2 or 3 lines back. This seems to produce good horses quite often

You can achieve really good results after about 15-20 season. And with the league probably starting at the end of March that is enough time to get some good horses.

If any other senior trainers want to add to this that would be great
Author:  keenanbrown [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
wow thanks for the tips i have a stable of 20 nh horses but i will probably have to adjust my stable beacuse alot of them are 4yos..thanks for the info mr president
Author:  keenanbrown [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
hey leon what would you advise us on the nh stable set up like how many 2mile,2m4,3mile,4mile,etc. horses would you advise us on attacking alot of the races and at different distances because i have not seen the nh schedule and i do not know if i need 10 2mile horses or 10 4mile horses..just want alot of my horses to have a chance to race..thanks
Author:  leonvr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
The schedule is in the national hunt thread or in last years Tom.

You need both hurdlers and chasers. Maybe 2 juvenile hurdlers ( 4 year olds ) and a bumper horse.

Last season I had

1 bumper
2 juveniles ( 4year olds)
2 4m2 chase++
1 4m chase
3 3m5 chase
2 3m2 chase
3 3m chase
3 2m5 chase
3 2m chase
3 3m hurdlers
1 2m5 hurlders
2 2m4 hurlder
1 2m2 hurdler
3 2m hurdlers

There are lot of group races at distances like 2m1 2m3 etc have a look at the schedule
Author:  simpleminds [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
Leon did you get my e-mail addy I couldn't get the one I found for you to work my E-mail addy is either grayham37@hotmail.com or grayhamclutterbuck @ yahoo . co . uk 8)
Author:  leonvr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
Yes I did emailed you yesterday Will send it again
Author:  akhc [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
Thanks for the very useful info. Really rams home the point why NH is not for me. I don't run any horses part 3 :mrgreen:! I wouldn't have the patience to wait till a horse was 6.

Looking at what you've posted it looks like I wouldn't have any horses that would be good for the NH league. Are there any races that my 3 year olds (what aren't running on the flats game) might be able to enter?

Based on what you posted above I just trialled a bunch of 3 year olds at 2m on Cheltenham. Screenshot below and not sure they are any good.

Image

Would love to have a small presence in the NH league even if it's 1/2 horses so hoping the schedule will have some 3+ races :).

Just looked at the schedule and I think all the races are 4+. Could some of them be 3+? If not no worries. Cheers :)
Author:  leonvr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
No 3 year old races I'm afraid.
You time is way off mine as well , but that's understandable since you running 3 year olds. There times are like 2 year olds on the flat and thus will be much slower. Though times seem to have no impact for Nh trialling. You looking for consistency and good jumping.
I trial on good to soft or soft ground. Most races are run on good to soft, soft or heavy as they are in reality.
Author:  akhc [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
So what times are competitive then? :) Bear in mind I don't play NH at all.. but thought it might be fun to just throw a few in
Author:  leonvr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
Around that time but on good to soft should be competitive
Author:  Ubar02 [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
In a jumps only game what is the best time to breed horses- before or after Christmas?
Author:  leonvr [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
I don't think it makes much difference when you breed. Have good horses come from both time periods
Author:  akhc [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
Image

Can anyone whose more experienced with NH CK trials explain to me why the 5 year old isn't carrying more weight? Or is the weight what you would expect to see in this race and it is the 3 year olds that are carrying too much weight? Something doesn't seem right and I can't see where I'm going wrong.
Author:  Hemz [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
akhc wrote:
So what times are competitive then? :) Bear in mind I don't play NH at all.. but thought it might be fun to just throw a few in


Times don't really matter in NH trailling, consistancy is key. I've never gone on times in the past when sorting my team out for the league.

Sandown is also a very good course to trail your horses specially over fences. You get to know if your horses can jump round here.

Always done mine exporting around Sep/Dec but it makes no differents i don;t think.

Another tip when trailling NH horses. The best horses for bumper races are 2m Chases not hurlders. This will save you time when sorting out your horses for the league.

Top stuff Leon this will help newbies who want to join the NH (Best) league and give then a good start.

Leon is there anyway of having passed horse records in the new TOM? I know we had it to a certain point in the old one.
Author:  Hemz [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: National Hunt Breeding
akhc wrote:
Image

Can anyone whose more experienced with NH CK trials explain to me why the 5 year old isn't carrying more weight? Or is the weight what you would expect to see in this race and it is the 3 year olds that are carrying too much weight? Something doesn't seem right and I can't see where I'm going wrong.


Grade 1 races they go off level weights, mares get 3Ib less
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