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 Kentucky Derby 2016 
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
I think the owner for now Zayat is to blame for AP's lose, he's trying to fit a whole career into 1 year. First of I don't get how u wait a lifetime for a horse like AP to come a long and then sell him before he's finished racing :roll:
And then after the race the owner said he'd either retire him or would have a prep before the classic, what is he thinking the horse needs a rest did he not see the same race as me.

How can they say at this moment he should be retired, give him a few weeks rest and he might return to his best if he's not showing it in his workout's then retire him. I wonder if Coolmore are putting the pressure on him because they don't want him losing again( not good for the pocket).

I'm not sure if Gleneagles will go on dirt, Giant was more a US bred horse than Gleneagles, unless they take him over early and get some proper works into him then I don't give him a chance. Giant Causeway was a iron horse and he's proved that it wasn't a fluke race because he's bred good dirt horses since he went to stud.


Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:25 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
There are only two reasons I have for having Gleneagles go to the Breeders Cup Classic:
1) Raise Stud Fee. If he finishes in the money, add 10,000-20,000 to his fee (probably more if he wins, but I'm not gunna guess at stud fees) or
2) Use it as a prep for the Dubai World Cup. This is what was being done with Toast of New York (Belmont Derby prep for Pacific Classic which was a prep for the BC Classic, which was a prep for the World Cup, although injury costed him a chance there). I highly doubt that this is the case, but a possibility.

Also, for AP's stud fee... it should be fine, even if he loses a prep but wins the Classic (or the other way around). Only hurt if he just walks home all the way at the back. However, he is a ridgling, which will hurt. But should be around a $150,000 fee.

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Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:14 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
mjtags11 wrote:
There are only two reasons I have for having Gleneagles go to the Breeders Cup Classic:
1) Raise Stud Fee. If he finishes in the money, add 10,000-20,000 to his fee (probably more if he wins, but I'm not gunna guess at stud fees) or
2) Use it as a prep for the Dubai World Cup. This is what was being done with Toast of New York (Belmont Derby prep for Pacific Classic which was a prep for the BC Classic, which was a prep for the World Cup, although injury costed him a chance there). I highly doubt that this is the case, but a possibility.

Also, for AP's stud fee... it should be fine, even if he loses a prep but wins the Classic (or the other way around). Only hurt if he just walks home all the way at the back. However, he is a ridgling, which will hurt. But should be around a $150,000 fee.


There is no chance that Gleneagles stay's in training. When was the last time they kept one of them in training, it's been a long time if ever. Another thing is they don't care about the Dubai World Cup, it's the rivals race.

I think if they were to run in the Classic and lose then I think it would cost them a lot, I think they want to beat my horses stud fee of 200,000. Well sadly he's not as good so take that Coolmore. :lol:

It's good to see a true champ( Wise Dan) back next weekend, hopefully he still got something left in the tank.


Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
atiggerx33 wrote:
ghostzapper74 wrote:
I think the owner for now Zayat is to blame for AP's lose, he's trying to fit a whole career into 1 year. First of I don't get how u wait a lifetime for a horse like AP to come a long and then sell him before he's finished racing :roll:
And then after the race the owner said he'd either retire him or would have a prep before the classic, what is he thinking the horse needs a rest did he not see the same race as me.

How can they say at this moment he should be retired, give him a few weeks rest and he might return to his best if he's not showing it in his workout's then retire him. I wonder if Coolmore are putting the pressure on him because they don't want him losing again( not good for the pocket).

I'm not sure if Gleneagles will go on dirt, Giant was more a US bred horse than Gleneagles, unless they take him over early and get some proper works into him then I don't give him a chance. Giant Causeway was a iron horse and he's proved that it wasn't a fluke race because he's bred good dirt horses since he went to stud.


I that they're just trying to squeeze EVERYTHING into this year, and it's unfortunate. We'll be left, as with Secretariat, to imagine his 4-year-old career. I think AP can only improve with age (and if he doesn't THEN retire him) but his owners made that decision already. I agree he needs rest, I wish they'd just aimed him for the PA Derby, as he would be perfectly placed to for a nice little prep, but that ship has sailed so they could put him in something more prestigious.


Coolmore already made the decision of when he's going to retire the 1st November, the day after the Classic. That was the plan straight after they bought him, I was disappointed when I heard that they had bought him because I knew it was over after this season.

Oh well it's time to look to the future and there's some cracking 2yo races this weekend, and the mighty Songbird goes in Del Mar Debutante Stakes. Hopefully she can build from her racecourse debut.


Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Glenaeagles on the Coolmore Ireland Roster New for 2016

and I have already seen the Coolmore American Pharoah Jackets & Jumpers (They Are Fantastic by the way) which means he
wont be back next year. Id love to see a clash between the 2 and the other stars in the race but Highly unlikely Coolmore
would place their 2 massive stallion prospects in the same race this is why is i suspect AP has retired.

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Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:17 am
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Is Coolmore the Kiss of horse racing? Selling all sorts of racing tchotchkes to the public? Can I get an American Pharoah bobblehead doll too?

I have been handicapping a lot of Saratoga races lately and DelMar and a few others too and am dumbfounded by the amount of horses who sold at auction for 100k or more who are running for low claiming prices. A lot of these horses went for 200k or more. Looks like the conniving bidders and sales agents have been doing there little con game on a lot of gullible buyers the past 5 or so years.

The auction shenanigans can be read about here from a 2006 article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/sports/othersports/03jackson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:33 am
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Looks like Zayat got his way, AP to run in the classic.

I wonder what Coolmore think's of that, a day after they put Gleneagles in the classic. Zayat said he's talked to his team and everyone agrees that he should go for the classic. No mention of coolmore :shock:

What a great day, AP's going for the classic and brady gets his suspension overturned. :D


Last edited by ghostzapper74 on Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:34 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
SiriusChill wrote:
Is Coolmore the Kiss of horse racing? Selling all sorts of racing tchotchkes to the public? Can I get an American Pharoah bobblehead doll too?

I have been handicapping a lot of Saratoga races lately and DelMar and a few others too and am dumbfounded by the amount of horses who sold at auction for 100k or more who are running for low claiming prices. A lot of these horses went for 200k or more. Looks like the conniving bidders and sales agents have been doing there little con game on a lot of gullible buyers the past 5 or so years.

The auction shenanigans can be read about here from a 2006 article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/sports/othersports/03jackson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


I like looking/watching 2yo maiden races and I was studying form for a Maiden at Thistledown and this horse called Red Hot Warrior caught my eye because he went unsold for 575,000 at Keeneland and was running in a Thistledown maiden, he finished 2nd then won next time out at Thistledown. I bet the greedy owners now wish they took the money because he's not worth more than a bag of spanners at this moment in time.

He's running this weekend at Kentucky Downs in a stakes race, will be interesting to see how he gets on.


Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Red Hot Warrior should have his form translate well. I liked his maiden breaking score at Thistledown and this year the two tracks that have had form translate throughout the country, Thistledown and Tampa Bay. Looking at him in the Calumet Juvenile. I like Moment Is Right in the Juvenile Fillies. How about the More Than Ready Mile... Has the looks of a Grade II. Undrafted has a good chance here but I like Knights Nation to upset in this prep for the Breeders Cup Mile.

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Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:13 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Also, if Gleneagles and American Pharoah do lock horns in the Breeders Cup Classic, it will be the first time in the history of the Classic that a 2000 Guineas winner and a Kentucky Derby winner will both be in the race. No clue how many times in history that clash has happened but I don't it was more than a handful of times.

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Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:19 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
mjtags11 wrote:
Also, if Gleneagles and American Pharoah do lock horns in the Breeders Cup Classic, it will be the first time in the history of the Classic that a 2000 Guineas winner and a Kentucky Derby winner will both be in the race. No clue how many times in history that clash has happened but I don't it was more than a handful of times.


It's only happened once before, it was in 2007.

Gorgeous George was a 4yo by then and ran against that years derby winner in Street Sense. It didn't go well because George lost his life in horrible conditions at Monmouth. Monmouth's biggest day ever turned into a bloody disaster ( a load of horses got injured that weekend) because it never stopped raining. I've never seen that race since. :cry:


Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:25 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
mjtags11 wrote:
Red Hot Warrior should have his form translate well. I liked his maiden breaking score at Thistledown and this year the two tracks that have had form translate throughout the country, Thistledown and Tampa Bay. Looking at him in the Calumet Juvenile. I like Moment Is Right in the Juvenile Fillies. How about the More Than Ready Mile... Has the looks of a Grade II. Undrafted has a good chance here but I like Knights Nation to upset in this prep for the Breeders Cup Mile.




The 2yo races at Kentucky Downs are tough, will be interesting to see how Good Intent (ex Brit) gets on in the Calmut.

I think it's a prep for Undrafted, not sure he's a miler, much better at 6F.


Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Ghostzapper, I need your help on Race 4 from Kentucky Downs tomorrow. I am completely baffled by this 2yo mile race from a pedigree standpoint. I like the Gio Ponti firster Jeteffect and with Francisco Torres aboard, I would say this horse is live but I don't know if Brookfield can get this one ready first time out. And then the Lukas firster on the rail could be live as well as the AE Wesley Ward firster if she gets in. Very tough.

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Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
I've got to admit picking winners at Kentucky is tough because no one knows how they will handle the course, it's on its own.

I do like Entrancing, I know I'm biased because he's by ghostzapper but he's out of a French mare and ghostzapper horses are getting better on the grass. I think they have missed a beat by not giving him grass bred mares because I believe his runners could/would be better on the lawn than on dirt. He was a very rare horse because he had a turn of foot on the dirt that other horses didn't have, he could quicken( always ran quick fractions at the end of a race)and not many horses can do it and grass horses do the same and that's why I believe he could make a better turf sire than dirt and because he could win group 1 sprints and go long. The problem is his horses so far get better with age and rarely gets first time winners. But I think he has the best grass pedigree in this race.

The rest is a motley crew, nothing stands out on pedigree apart from Jeteffect and god knows who his trainer is. I couldn't put any money on a trainer that has won 2 in 38 lifetime :lol:

One horse to keep a eye on is American Holiday in the Juvenile fillies race, she's never run on grass and there's little grass in her pedigree but she's been impressive so far in her races.


Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Kentucky Downs Opening Day Selections

Race 1
W- Nate The Natural
P- American Road
S- Roses R Perfect
Race 2
W- Al’s Rosie
P- Congrats Honey
S- Franks Officer Gal
Race 3
W- Big Kick
P- Hadrian
S- North of Oswego
Race 4
W- Jeteffect
P- Entrancing
S- James Lane
Race 5
W- One More Strike
P- Mio Me
S- Loom
Race 6
W- Whoopie Pie
P- Wayward Kitten
S- Jubal
Race 7
W- Moment Is Right
P- War Chant
S- Seaside Schiller
Race 8
W- John Q. Public
P- Red Hot Warrior
S- Axtell
Race 9
W- Undrafted
P- Regally Ready
S- Skyring
Race 10
W- Airoforce
P- Out of the Trappe
S- Diploma

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Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:04 pm
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