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 Kentucky Derby 2016 
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
American Pharoah has basically perfect conditions to run a big one. Today is a fully exciting card filled with champions, Triple Crown winners, and Tale of Verve.
First, let me go over my selections in the Travers. American Pharoah seems to be the clear winner. The only horse that could pressure him is Texas Red if they decide to send him. But American Pharoah would still be on top down the stretch while Texas Red would be all tired out. Keen Ice has been chipping away at American Pharoah his last few starts and should love this distance. Expect him to run big. Smart Transition is my upsetter. He won the Curlin Stakes over a very slow pace, something that he might get here with no pressure on American Pharoah. Could be the surprise in the money finisher.
My Selections:
W: American Pharoah
P: Keen Ice
S: Smart Transition
-----------------------------
As for the rest of the card:
Race 1: Grey Wizard
Race 2: Midnight Surfer
Race 3: Coming Attraction
Race 4: Eternal Bird
Race 5: America’s Kitten
Race 6: Untapable
Race 7: Unbridled Forever
Race 8: March
Race 9: Wildcat Red
Race 10: Flintshire
Race 11: American Pharoah
Race 12: Tepin
Race 13: Oklahoma Den

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Quote:
3.Tango Time
4.Tale Of S'avall
5.Vigilante
6.Sheer Drama
7.Unbridled Forever


Back to Earth after 5 winners in a row. Longshot Loose On the Town barely crossed the finish line. I liked him a lot.

I like Wildcat Red too BUT why no Paco Lopes? He has ridden other horses with chances in other races today at Saratoga but he is riding a sub par card at Parx today.

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:55 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
SiriusChill wrote:
Quote:
3.Tango Time
4.Tale Of S'avall
5.Vigilante
6.Sheer Drama
7.Unbridled Forever


Back to Earth after 5 winners in a row. Longshot Loose On the Town barely crossed the finish line. I liked him a lot.

I like Wildcat Red too BUT why no Paco Lopes? He has ridden other horses with chances in other races today at Saratoga but he is riding a sub par card at Parx today.


It's the start of the big festival at Parx , lots of stupid money for the next 8 weeks and perhaps he's gone there for the money and to ride Souper Colossal in the Smarty Jones. I've been watching Parx on my computer and Social Inclusion ( good 3yo from last year) made his comeback and he won easily and he's by the same sire as AP and he's also got a lovely stride so perhaps it's the sire that's giving his son's the great stride that they have.

Not sure what to make of the Kings Bishop because the first and second were Ellis Park shippers :shock: Will be interesting to see what the time is in the Forego.

Can AP get near the 2 min course record. Hopefully he can go under the 2.01 because the race course is running super fast.


Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:13 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
I missed the race but I tell you who impresses me - Vigilante for Wayne Catalano. He has a strange habit of showing some early speed and then falling way back and then making an impressive rally. He is stakes quality if they can get his mind on business.

WOW. Flintshire is poetry in motion. He cut that corner on the last turn and just slingshotted down the stretch. That ride and trip was a work of art.

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:12 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Sometimes u got to question these so called experts, we got someone on our racing channel telling us that this race ( Travers) is a harder race for AP than last week's Classic. What is he talking about did he not see Beholder's monster smash of that field, none of these would have got with in 5L of her.

Hopefully she's going for the Classic.

Sirus u was talking about the poor prize money in the UK (I 100% agree) tomorrow at Parx on a normal card there will be $850,000 in prize money. UK courses can only ever dream of having prize money like that.


Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:23 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Are there casino's there? That might fix things?

I can't understand how trainers, jockeys and owners pay the bills over there. Unless you have disposable income. Like I said before if betting is the main thing that drives the whole thing it is ripe for shenanigans.

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Wow wow wow.

He joins some of the greats by getting beaten.

Our experts are talking more crap by saying he got softened up, they were going slow for a grade 1( even 24's) and it's just a case he under performed by 10 pounds.

I've loved him since I first saw him in his first race( got beaten) but I still don't know how good he is. Some of his win's are outstanding but he's never run super fast times.

It makes the Classic a better race now because everyone will want to run in it.


Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:51 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Perhaps his breeding limitations finally caught up with him. His dosage index of 4.33 is one of a horse who would be lucky to get a mile. As Victor said and I noticed he was sweating some before the race. Frosted ran an impressive race showing all that speed and hanging on for third. Where the hell was Texas Red? Keen Ice keeps developing race after race and Javier on was a big plus.

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:07 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
SiriusChill wrote:
Perhaps his breeding limitations finally caught up with him. His dosage index of 4.33 is one of a horse who would be lucky to get a mile. As Victor said and I noticed he was sweating some before the race. Frosted ran an impressive race showing all that speed and hanging on for third. Where the hell was Texas Red? Keen Ice keeps developing race after race and Javier on was a big plus.



Beaten too far out to say that, I thought he was in trouble 3 furlongs out.

Can they freshen him up before the Classic or will Coolmore retire him before that. Perhaps the Money Men will think it's not worth it because if he gets beaten again perhaps his fee will have to be lowered.


Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:31 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
At longer than a mile and an eighth and a solid pace American Pharoah is susceptible to a horse with solid late rally. Looking back at the triple crown races and even this race he has raced against weak fields and easy paces. Keen Ice will be a force in the Classic.

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:37 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
I'm not convinced with Keen Ice, he is as average as they come. Very Average horses has been him. Not for me.

I know one thing, the 3yo's have had a hard time this year. It looked a stellar year at the start but it's been brutal through injuries, its almost like the last man standing will win. Materiality and Dortmund have just stared working out again but the rest are injured or retired.

I suppose the older horses haven't done any better with Chrome and Belief getting injured. What could have been. :cry:

This is how I would price up the Classic.

Beholder 2-1F
Honor Code 5-2
Liams Map 5-1
Tonalist 6-1
Dortmund 8-1
Keen Ice 12-1
Effinex 12-1
Materiality 14-1
I couldn't price up AP because we just don't know what they will do with him now.


Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:07 am
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
American Pharoah was admirable in his loss. He was pushed way too hard early and just didn't have what it took. I was watching the race with a friend of mine who knows nothing about horse racing outside of what I tell her (which most of the times she doesn't listen to lol) and from movies and I think what she said kinda was true "They are trying to pull a Secretariat Belmont." She of course was referencing Secretariat and Sham being neck and neck throughout much of that Belmont Stakes. While I don't agree in the sense of that being the goal, I can see the similarities based on just the look (but not on the plan or style or time).

I'm not surprised that it was Keen Ice that was the one to beat AP, but rather I'm surprised that it actually happened. But what surprised me more was Zayat pulling the sore loser card and saying that there is a chance of retiring him now. Did Steve Coburn take over Ahmed Zayat for a few moments??? Just the thought of that is ridiculous. One race does not make a horse's career. What if Treve was retired after her first loss? She would never had won her second Arc and going for an unprecedented third this year.

Right now, I still see him as the favorite for the Classic. Victor Espinoza won't make the same mistake by making him duel and basically get bumped so many times throughout the race (although he did really just want to keep his silks clean. I have yet to see any dirt of mud on them). Beholder would be my second choice and there wouldn't be much between them. I was holding out hope that Toast of New York might come back for the Classic but giving him the year off is smart. Right now my favorite for the World Cup (doubt he will see California Chrome there... what a mess that horse is). It will be interesting to see Lea in the Classic. Keen Ice could be a threat. This is a distance he likes. And with a very slow pace and a lot of kick back, he was able to just cruise on by. But we will see. This might be the year of an international horse winning the Classic if American Pharoah doesn't start and Beholder for some odd reason decides to go to the Distaff (doubt it... should be a Classic horse... nothing left to prove against the girls).

The most impressive horse in the stakes races of the day was Flintshire. I continue to press that Flintshire is one of the top horses in the world (when you continue to finish only a few lengths behind the best horse in the world, Treve, how are you not going to be up there). The globetrotting Flintshire is very underrated. I mean he does get the epaulet silks instead of the sash silks. He usually isn't cruising late like he was yesterday. They made the mile and a quarter in 2:01.47, faster than the Travers (which also was the fastest since 2001 with Point Given). Finished up the race running 2:23.77 for the 12 furlongs. Second fastest Sword Dancer at the current distance. Absolutely cruising. He is my definite BC Turf favorite and will love Keeneland a lot more. I rewatched last years Turf and he hated the dirt crossover, probably cost him like two lengths. He didn't recover until halfway through the first run on the stretch. His jockey also had no idea what to do on the downhill turf course, follow the pack or follow the beaten up turf that was right next to the pack. Keeneland will be better for him. Could this be the year of Flintshire? I imagine no horse has every done a Sword Dancer-Arc double, let alone an Arc-Turf double. But if the Longchamp turf course can be somewhat firm, maybe. Although if there was any year for Flintshire to win it would've been last year. Seems like he needs a very quick pace. But who knows what could happen. Still putting Treve as my Arc favorite by a lot (2-1), but Flintshire is my second choice (5-1).

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Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
So apparently Gleneagles is being aimed at the Breeders Cup Classic... Um?

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Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:31 pm
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
That big race at York he scratched out of I forget the name - I was ready to go against him if he ran that day. My question - why hasn't he gone longer than a mile in his career up to this point? He is bred for it right?

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Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:01 am
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Post Re: Kentucky Derby 2016
Gleneagles sister was a miler Marvellous i think she may have got 10f but she did not stay in the oaks at 12f

Galileos dont usually go on the dirt but hoping his uncle Giants Causeway will have an influence

William hill offering him at 14s i think he has a decent chance

Also the fact i think this points to AP retiring

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Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:53 am
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