Dual BreedersCup winner Stephanie's Kitten has sold to Shadai Farm in Japan for $2.8million. Intresting.

Thought Frosted might have challenged AP vis a vis Travers stakes. Personally disagree with the massive gap in the RPRs now between AP and GH, 6lb, never rated Sam walker anyway but to put a horse that won the arc easily beating a two time previous winner 6lb below a horse that has only raced elders once and got a soft lead seems a bit ridiculous.

Thought it was a fair assessment by the handicapper & RPR its Clear that AP is incredibility special he destroyed a world class field in the
classic easy lead or not he could not have done it easier Horn is a class act but IMO not in Pharoah's League.

I'm sorry Paul but u must have been watching a different race because there was nothing world class about That field, it was the worst field ever for the classic. As much as I love AP ( he won the triple crown and classic) but he beat nothing in any of those races, and I know u can only beat wants in front of u( sadly never raced against the best) but just because u beat everyone it doesn't make u great. Sadly he never won a fast race and was never blessed with pace, the times don't lie.
To be Great u have to do Great things and winning the triple crown was special but not great. I think the pair of them should be rated around the same, very good horses but not great.

This is why I call him( AP ) the king of the plodders, compare his time in the classic to my ghostzapper. Truly great horses can quicken up in the final 2 furlongs over a 1m2, not many horses in history has had that ability.

Ghostzapper 23.42- 47.00- 1.11.32- 1.35.28- 1.59.02
American Pharoah 23.99 - 47.50 - 1.11.21- 1.35.47- 2.00.07

Look at the times and they were running pretty close all the way through to the final 2 fraction's, my horse ran the final 4 furlongs in 23.96 - 23.74 = 47.70 And AP ran it in 24.26- 24.60= 48.88 . AP never showed that he could quicken at the end of a race and that's why he is very good and not worldly.

Sadly to say but h'cappers these days are just there to make headlines and that's what he did. Some of what they come up with is total crap. They like a lot of people these days like to get on the hype machine and I hate that, let the horses do the talking.

Comparing American Pharoah against some of the best is tough, but here is a very close comparison to a legend of the 30s, War Admiral. Here are the chart caller times for War Admiral's Triple Crown:
-Kentucky Derby (fst) :46 4/5 --- 1:12 2/5 --- 1:37 2/5 --- 2:03 1/5 (led at every call)
-Preakness (gd) :47 --- 1:12 2/5 --- 1:37 3/5 --- 1:58 2/5 (led at every call)
-Belmont Stakes (fst) :48 --- 1:12 1/5 --- 2:02 1/5 --- 2:28 3/5 (led at every call)

For American Pharoah's Triple Crown:
-Kentucky Derby (fst) :47.34 --- 1:11.29 --- 1:36.45 --- 2:03.02 (third at 1st and 2nd call; first at 3rd and final call)
-Preakness (slp): :46.49 --- 1:11.42 --- 1:37.74 --- 1:58.46 (led at every call)
-Belmont Stakes (fst) :48.84 --- 1:13.99 --- 2:02.33 --- 2:26.65 (led at every call)

Both horses ran very similar races with a similar pace scenario. War Admiral went on to win many competitive races against older horses. While it is hard to compare horses of different eras, it can be assumed that American Pharoah would only get better as a 4yo and could have beaten a competitive and full field in the Breeders' Cup Classic (or any race for that matter).

Mj these are the facts.

His win in the Preakness was the slowest in 67 years. The horses he beat that day Tale of Verve and Divining Rod have not even been closing to winning any race since. Divining Rod could only finish 3rd in the Ohio Derby

His Derby win was the 5th slowest in the last 20 years. The horse he beat didn't run again but had only won 2 out of 6 going into the race. The 3rd horse Dortmund might go on to be a good one next year.

His most impressive win was the Haskel but Bayern went quicker the year before and Rachel Alexandra went 0.70 seconds quicker a few years earlier.

I'll tell u why he was a plodder and that is because his style was running around 24seconds, in no race was there a quick 2 furlong time.

His best performance time was the Belmont, he ran the quickest in 15 years. That suited his running style running around the 24 second mark, he could just keep galloping at his pace.

People were saying before the classic that he didn't stay 1m2, I don't know what horse they were watching.

His Preakness is hard to compare time wise as the rain came down in buckets just before the race. Even Andy Beyer had trouble making a figure with any relative exactness.
The Haskell time was only slow as Victor Espinoza slowed him down to almost a walk late (watch how quick Keen Ice finished). He could have run close to the record.
The Belmont was just a very even run and very impressive how he never let up.
I don't think Victor Espinoza ever let American Pharoah run to his full potential and just let him run enough to win the race.

Mj go watch Rachel Alexandra who went 0.70 quicker on a sloppy race track and tell me what was the better race, she beat a proper group 1 horse in summer bird where he ran against donkeys.

The 3yo's he beat are a bad bunch, frosted is a dog ( been saying it all year) and Keen Ice is not very good, the only good 3yo he beat was Dortmund and I'm not sure he stayed the derby trip.

I'll agree about the Preakness because it rained before the race so u have no idea what the track was like.

Bit harsh there aren't you Ghost? Frosted is no "Dog". Had some excuses in the Classic in which the pace doomed him. Won the Wood Memorial and the Pennsylvania Derby. Second in the Remson, Holy Bull, Belmont and Jim Dandy. Third in the Travers. Those aren't the credentials of a "Dog". Give him the winter off and if he comes back don't be surprised if he is a beast of a 4yo.

I apologize for all the rest of the horses on the planet for not being Ghostzapper.

I'm not saying it is a good bunch of 3yos (been saying it's a poor group overall the whole year) and the 2yos coming up aren't much better... But that doesn't mean that the 3yos outside of AP were awful. Frosted is a very talented horse but he has a horrible rider. Joel Rosario is awful at riding Frosted and should have been replaced. Keen Ice is very good but needs a pace to run at. Three of the best 3yos never ran the whole year, Calculator, Texas Red, and Japan. Each showed talent but never got the chance.
However, the horses that he faced were better than many that he could have faced if he ran as a 3yo in 2014, 2013, or 2012. He is talented and one of the too horses of the best decade.
But he is no Frankel. He is no Zenyatta. He is no Cigar. He is no Man O' War. He isn't a top 10 horse based on talent. I'd put him as around 25th all time in North American runners. Sad to not see him as a 4yo, but very talented and deserving of praise. He wasn't ever asked to go his full, so hard to know what he could've been capable of.

Now I am going to disagree with you MJ. Rosario is not awful and he is a huge reason Frosted responded like he did in the Wood and his runs afterwards. With Rosario on Frosted he started showing an impressive rally. The Belmont was a great run. The Peter Pan was merely a prep for the Travers and Joel was injured right before the Travers and Frosted would of run better IMO. The PA Derby showed what Frosted is all about. Maybe looking at the form Frosted is probably best at a mile and an eighth. I'd keep Rosario on and expect McLaughlin will.

I think Frosted is talented but unless he becomes a man then he will never reach his potential, I've never seen him win a fight.

I thought at the start of the season we where going to have a great year but most of the top older horses got injured and so did the better 3yo's.


Boys I don't know if u have seen this race but if u can go back and have a look at the 6 race on the 1st November from Churchill Downs. It's a 2yo maiden race and a horse called Unexplained by Ghostzapper ran in it, one of the strangest races I've ever seen. He was tailed of from the start and I thought he was going to get pulled when all of a sudden he grew wings.

Sirus I think we going to need to settle this in the league, u are going have to come up with AP and I'll make a ghostzapper and we will settle this in the Kentucky Derby.

Funny you mention that. A while ago before the league was ground to a halt with the no breeding transfers rule I had bred a beast and named it - Ghostkiller Bred to excel at the Kentucky Derby. Alas he was no killer in the CK.