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 Well - That's a joke! 
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Post Well - That's a joke!
Amazingly, Arrogate has kept top spot in the world rankings even though he lost his last three races while Winx won more G1 races and a third Cox Plate!

Here is a link to the Top 100.

https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news ... ngs/415041


Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:42 pm
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
These rankings always puzzle me completely you could understand if it was Gun Runner and Winx as joint leaders

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Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:40 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
I have been informed that the ratings work on a 'per year basis' So Arrogate is judged on his one big win which will hold him in the number one spot until the Ratings Year ends OR another horse does something exceptional within this year. I would have thought Winx winning a third straight Cox Plate in track record time (beating her record from last year) surely would have been enough. I didn't see Arrogate's last start but I saw his first two for this prep - the first race he was truly ordinary to say the least and his second start he did run at least 3 wide the whole trip and although he lost it seemed a good effort. As Martin said to me and I know he is correct - if Winx has won just one of her races in Europe or Dubai she would be number one today. That is just how it is.
On a brighter note it appears she'll come back for the Aussie autumn to get her race fit - hopefully she comes back just as good as usual and she'll be off to England/Europe for the Northern summer.


Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:23 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
I don’t think it’s a joke, arrogate achieved his rating from his performance in the Dubai World Cup which was undoubtedly deserving of it, he hasn’t ran well since but the long ones ratings work on a horses best performance, winx has not ran a better race than that, and she is racing against the same horses over and over and not being challenged so I don’t think she deserves a higher rating than arrogate, gun runner similarly has not produced a better performance than arrogate this year. I would understand enable or even cracksman being top although arrogates Dubai will roe Cup was surely better. But enable and cracksman based on their runs in the arc and champion stakes, given the horses they beat deserve to be higher than winx in my opinion.


Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:21 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
qwsa wrote:
I don’t think it’s a joke, arrogate achieved his rating from his performance in the Dubai World Cup which was undoubtedly deserving of it, he hasn’t ran well since but the long ones ratings work on a horses best performance, winx has not ran a better race than that, and she is racing against the same horses over and over and not being challenged so I don’t think she deserves a higher rating than arrogate, gun runner similarly has not produced a better performance than arrogate this year. I would understand enable or even cracksman being top although arrogates Dubai will roe Cup was surely better. But enable and cracksman based on their runs in the arc and champion stakes, given the horses they beat deserve to be higher than winx in my opinion.



Did you not see the Breeders Cup Classic awesome performance did it the hard way and crushed Arrogate how you can
say the Dubai world cup was better is beyond me Dubai form does not carry. Your entitled to your opinion that seems crazy to me.

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Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
To break her own track record in Australia's greatest WFA race and to also equal the mighty Kingston Town's record of three successive victories in the race says far more than Arrogate's trifling five G1 victories. The fact she has won 22 races on the trot - all of them Group races - 15 of them being G1 says far more than a horse that is already washed up as a 4yo.
The history books will record Arrogate as the worlds number one horse but all Australians will know he had the heart the size of pea compared to Winx!


Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:27 pm
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
Sorry Paul it seems crazy to suggest the breeders cup classic win is better than the Dubai World Cup where arrogate made up 20 lengths from the back of the field to win beating gun runner in the process. As for winx I just don’t thinksustralian form particularly over middle distances matches up to elsewhere in the world.


Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:57 pm
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
qwsa wrote:
Sorry Paul it seems crazy to suggest the breeders cup classic win is better than the Dubai World Cup where arrogate made up 20 lengths from the back of the field to win beating gun runner in the process. As for winx I just don’t thinksustralian form particularly over middle distances matches up to elsewhere in the world.


I'm not personally having a crack at you - so don't take personally what I say next. Let's take So You Think as an example who won 2 Cox Plates for Bart Cummings before being sold and trained by Aiden O'Brien. If So You Think had stayed in Oz he probably would have won three Cox Plates in a row - which Winx has recently done. Are you going to tell me So You Think's form wasn't good enough for European standards?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_You_Think


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winx_(horse)

Some links to do a quick comparison if you like.

The biggest handicap to Winx is she is Australian.


Last edited by NPG319 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:24 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
I dont take it personally, we have opinions. So You Think was a very good horse! i cant compare his australian form to winx's because i dont know enough about the competition that both have faced, but I dont think the competition winx is facing compares to the best races in europe, Hartnell is a good example, the second best horse in australia for large parts of this year, and he wouldnt be a group one contender in europe. Im not saying winx doesnt meet group one european standards, im saying her form doesnt match that of enable or cracksman, who i think would beat winx. Was so you think ever considered the best horse in the world? I am not sure he was.


Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:35 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
So You Think

World Champion Intermediate Distance Turf Performer (2010)
World Champion Extended Distance Performer (2010)
Timeform rating: 133[3]

Winx beats Hartnel like he's a G3 horse.


Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:02 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
Winx is rated one better than So You Think at 134.


Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:06 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
She destroyed Highland Reel on the bridal last year nothing infuriates me more than someone putting down horses unjustly.

How you can call Arrogate the worlds best horse is beyond me he is not even America's best horse you can forgive 1
average run not several no doubt Meydan has had an effect on him. Gunrunner annihilated Arrogate in the classic & he
did it the hard way and is America's best horse.

By the way Arrogate is a fine horse I am not slating him but there is no way he is horse of the year yes last year he was
but after his performances this season how on earth can that be in consideration.

Its a game of opinion and your entitled to it and its to debate it.

it also annoys me how Anglo Irish media completely write off anything Winx has achieved.

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Last edited by pjrhodes1970 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:56 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
So So you think had his best season in Australia in 2010, and then care to Europe and was very very good but not nearly as dominant as he had been in Australia, and he wasn’t the best horse in Europe. In 2010 he was 8th in the Longines Rankings having had a comparable season to winx has had, in 2011 having shown himself to be one of the best in Europe he was 7th in the Longines Rankings.


Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:57 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
qwsa wrote:
So So you think had his best season in Australia in 2010, and then care to Europe and was very very good but not nearly as dominant as he had been in Australia, and he wasn’t the best horse in Europe. In 2010 he was 8th in the Longines Rankings having had a comparable season to winx has had, in 2011 having shown himself to be one of the best in Europe he was 7th in the Longines Rankings.


He won 5 G1s in each hemisphere and was one of the most consintant performers i have seen.

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Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:04 am
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Post Re: Well - That's a joke!
I didn’t say he wasn’t! But at no point was he the best in the world, and the competition he faced when coming to Europe was tougher than he faced in Australia, is it really that disputable to suggest middle distance racing in Australia is not of as higher standard as it is in Europe??


Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:11 am
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