Well Rich, what a silly comment!!
Putting the use of performance enhacing drugs in the bracket as over use of the whip..........One is pre-meditated the other is done in the "heat of a battle" so the use the 2 as a comparison is ludicrous to say the least.

There are a number of things in racing that go against the rules, the use of pacemakers which the is a tactic the 2 winning stables both employ on a regular basis, every horse entered into a race should be there to try its upmost to gain the best possible placing.........Debussy and Jan Vermeer tailed off by 43 lengths and 95 lengths????

I propose that both SYT and Rewilding be thrown out and Sri Putra takes the race for the CHEATING tactics their trainers employed.
Surely they were not ridden to gain the best possible placings, is this not cheating????

The role of the pacemaker is well known and therefore the punters are not being conned.

I am not saying that using performance enhancing drugs is the same as overusing the whip in it's severity as an offence for exactly the reasons you say. However both are breaking the rules to gain an unfair advantage thus affecting the result but only drug taking loses the horse the race after the event (I'm not saying bets should be paid out).

Otherwise we are saying that animal abuse is permitted as long as the race is valuable enough.

I'm not saying Frankie is guilty of animal abuse but clearly the incentive to win is greater than the incentive to look after the animal. Is that right?

For me hitting a horse 24 times could be a lot worse for the horse than being injected with drugs?? I feel the BHA has now got too step in and really make a stand as this debate has been going on for way too long and too many times for it not to be a problem now.

In looking at punishment l dont think fines will do it, and horses being kicked out cus of jockey error is not fair on owners either in my opinion. It has to be a direct punishment direct to the jockey and l think if you have over used the whip its a 10 day ban, 2nd time you do it in a 3 month period is a 20 day ban and if you do it 3 times in a 6 month period 30 days. This will not be moved for big meetings or allowances made and the ban is for all countries as its a ban from riding. Would like to see jockeys still do this after not being able to earn money for a month?? Like Fallon has said today some meetings are not worth going too so a 1 or 2 day ban for jockeys that might not of rode them days anyway is not teaching them. By having such big bans its bound to hit big meetings and big money would be lost. If l remember correctly franky was guilty of over use of the whip last 3 or 4 weeks ago if my memory is correct??

He has not been done for striking too hard, he has not marked the animal.
Have a look round the country today at all the bans that will have been handed out for different offences, Rewilding won the race fair and square, Frankie was not "Flogging a dead horse", he's a great horseman, Rewilding just kept finding more, what would you have done in the same situation???
In the spur of the moment, a group 1 race, worth a fortune, you are on Rewilding, SYT has stole a march on you, you can feel your horse still has plenty to give, your gaining with every stride, He's findind more for your urgings........Oh s**t, I've hit my horse my horse too many times, best stop now!!!

In a word.....YES

This is what l want to see. If your point is right and the horse doesnt really feel the whip then why constantly hit it, because you know aswell as l do the whip IS felt else we wouldnt have them in use. You are right Rewilding was the winner and in my honest opinion keeping within the use of the whip he would of won anyway

Mike
I'm not saying it was okay to hit the horse 24 times in the final 2 furlongs, Yes hit the jockey with a massive fine, long ban, its just cannot have the same punishment as a trainer administering performance enhacing drugs.

Jesus have a look back 20-30 years if you hadn't smacked your horse to high heaven then you hadn't got the best out of it.
Take a look on youtube, In dancing braves guineas, at least 3 horses were smacked and smacked HARD at that at least 20 times in the last 2 furlongs.......THATS WHEN JOCKEYS WERE JOCKEYS THOUGH.

Where did i say the horse DOESN'T feel the whip???

Only there are different punishments regarding the whip, at least 2 jockeys in britain in the last 2 days have been banned for marking a horse with the whip, do we hear of this, NO.
Only when its in a race where the money is down or "it really matters" does anything get said.
In my opinion they shouldn't need a whip, then the best horse/jockey would win on merit 9 times out of 10.

No l totally agree that injected drugs is totally different and you just cant compare, but the point l was making is for the horses welfare whipping is possibly worse. The trainer injecting drugs should be banned from training as indeed in cycling and athletics if they inject themselves they get severe bans and this should be the same in racing.

But in my opinion over using the whip where there are clear rules is just as bad and should not be overlooked and long bans should be handed out. I dont care if its a Group 1 worth £1 million it shouldnt make a difference, if a jockey cant control his urgings to keep to keep to the rules and not HIT a horse then he doesnt deserve to be riding.

Dettori, who hit the Godolphin colt 25 times in the last two and a half furlongs of the Group One, effectively pulling the race out of the fire to catch Jeremy on the line, was referred to the HRA by the Ascot stewards because they felt the offence warranted longer than seven days, the maximum punishment they can dish out.


That was copied from a story from 2007!! 4 years on and he does it again so obviously the breaking of rules bans are not working.

Why should Ryan Moore, who sticks to the rules and uses the whip in a fair manner lose out to Frankie Dettori who doesn't stick to the rules?

Maybe So You Think would have won had he been hit with the whip 24 times, we'll never know. When there is so little in the margins the rules have to be adhered to. For sure, debate whether the number of strikes is wrong (I have done this) but the rules are rules, the jockeys are well aware of them.

I'm definitely not against the whip, it is definitely required. If you have ever ridden a horse you would know this. Animals, and they are animals with moderate intelligence, do not understand always what is required of them. The whip acts as a physical reminder to drive on, the reason that the rule for whipping exists is because an animal, given a reminder as to what to do and not given a chance to do it becomes distressed. For instance, if your mother told you to do the dishes, and a second later started screaming in your face to do the dishes, you'd be pretty annoyed. It is not fair on the horse to not give it a chance to respond to the whip.

You'd need to fine jockeys more than they win but the real damage would be done by removing the G1 win, that is highly valuable from a stud point of view, much more than any fine.

Why should the horse be punished after doing all that was asked of it????

Its a pretty harsh view to take Rich, the horse and the owner suffering but maybe this is the harshness we need to make the jockeys take note

You can find this sort of stuff on just about any jock having whip bans, not just dettori :
Jan 2007:
What Ahern did not countenance was an extended ban for the disrepute charge. On learning of the sanction, the jockey said: “It was a bit of a blow. I listened to what they said and took it on the chin. I’ll be back fresh in April.” Ahern is the first jockey to fall foul of racing’s disrepute rules for a riding offence. He can have no complaints after sparing Marsam no punishment in a six-runner handicap at Southwell nine days ago. The jockey struck his mount some 20 times in two furlongs, wielding his whip with excessive force and frequency, and hitting the horse in the wrong place.

This caused Marsam, who finished second to Kylkenny, beaten a neck, to return with numerous weal marks on his body. “He [Ahern] abused Marsam by his grossly excessive use of force for his own disciplinary convenience,” a statement from the disciplinary panel, chaired by Christopher Rathcreedan, noted.

EDDIE AHERN, who gained his first Group 1 win on Preseli in Sunday's Moyglare Stud Stakes at The Curragh, fell foul of the Galway stewards yesterday when banned for 21 days for allegedly hitting another jockey with his whip during a race, writes Tony O'Hehir.


Tony McCoy fell foul of the Cheltenham stewards yesterday for trying to cajole the reluctant Deano's Beeno to jump off in the Unicoin New Homes Spa Hurdle. He was banned for five days for improper use of the whip.
Officials claimed the champion hit his horse "approximately 50 times" with the whip in the space of two minutes before the start of this three-mile contest.

Its been happening for years, some of these guys ride all over the world where regs and rules are different, no excuses but in the heat of the battle it happens!!

Where is the horse getting punished? It's not like it realises it has won a G1.

It's like saying if you injected a horse with steroids why should you take the win away? The horse didn't inject himself.

The owners need to be punished as well because the jockeys work for the owners. The horse isn't being punished, it's getting smacked less for starters.

Bad jockeys who overuse the whip come out against such bans. It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Lets agree to disagree, the owners/trainers have no control once the stalls open/tape goes up, punish the jockey big time, yes, but unless it can be proven that the owners/trainer sanctioned the over enthuthiastic use of the whip then they shouldn't be held accountable.

My opinion, it wont change the way the BHA think, neither will yours, anyway i want the winner of SHUMOOS's race dope tested, did you see how many times the jockey squeezed with his heels.........I lost £800 on that race, by a nose......a f**kin nose!!!!!