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ghostzapper74
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am Posts: 4105 Location: Wales
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
HighFlying07 wrote: I know, it is a little strange. the WBX just put up a £1,000,000 bonus from 2006. That's no longer on offer is it, it lasted all of two years. Nice gimmick WBX. (As Scott Mills would say WHO)
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:15 am |
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stephensmith84
Selling plater
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:21 pm Posts: 37
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Even if that "Triple Crown" was legitimate, no one in the industry would pursue it or respect it.
Irish hurdlers wouldn't have any interest, preferring their own prep races. English hurdlers would potentially be concerned with ground and other variables. That Triple Crown chat is a nonsense.
To the chap who thought it was a good festival - you need your head examined. I respect that races were competitive, but you also need quality to come through in some of the races. Not all, but some.
The World Cup equivalent to me would be Bosnia, USA, Ivory Coast and Colombia getting to the semi finals this summer. Certainly not bad sides, but the competition loses a little magic without some star power.
I'd love for someone to explain to me how Jezki, Vautour, Faugheen, More Of That & Very Wood constitutes the best batch of non-handicap hurdlers for 30 years.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:46 am |
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pjrhodes1970
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 pm Posts: 15151 Location: Republic of Ireland
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Ubar Mind your language please no need to swear to make your point
i had 5 ew on On His Own
if i had no money on him i still would have called for that result to be swapped around because i think the runner up was impeded and robbed i dont know why we even have stewards they are there for a day out and a free lunch gutless wonders
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:54 am |
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keithbeaky
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:47 pm Posts: 2407 Location: UK
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
The point about Sivliniaco is valid. I think if the interference had been through jokey error it would have gone. I don't think anyone agrees that the winner was always holding the second as On His Own is ahead two strides after the line.
I backed On His Own and Giant Bolster.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:29 am |
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Ubar02
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:04 am Posts: 2119
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Sorry for my language Paul, it's just I am sitting here seeing lots of people with singed fingers talking nonsense. My point is that sire de grugy was not at his best last year , just as sprinter sacre was not at his best is year. Sire de grugy has beaten everything put before him in grade 1 company this year, and as such has not been thoroughly tested, a la sea the stars, and therefore it is hard to know just how good he is, just as it is hard to quantify just how good sprinter sacre is, in the last few years the 2 mile division has plenty of stand outs but very little depth, and so you could arguably question what was Sprinter sacre beating, and would he have found much off the bridle- BG likes keeping his horses on the bridle as long as possible. Not saying he would have beaten him, but he would have gone closer than you think and you are t giving him fair credit. Also, what is to say SS would ever have reproduced last seasons form- look at masterminded. I feel the best hurdling festival for twenty years is valid- name me a stronger champion or world hurdle field in the past twenty years. And whilst the hurdling triple crown is just a name , it symbolises the best races , think of the equivalent being the prince of Wales, juddmonte international and champion stakes on the flat- an ordinary horse does not win two in the same year. Say what you like about the gold cup, but if you are comparing it to the denman kauto star era then we might be sat here for the next twenty years saying the same thing. He's a good young horse, the giant bolster is a good yardstick for the gold cup, and this is the first time they've raced on good ground this season. And whilst LW doesn't look like he would have won if the second had got a clear run , it was not his fault SC swerved and most likely spooked his horse.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:57 am |
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Ubar02
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:04 am Posts: 2119
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
stephensmith84 wrote: Even if that "Triple Crown" was legitimate, no one in the industry would pursue it or respect it.
Irish hurdlers wouldn't have any interest, preferring their own prep races. English hurdlers would potentially be concerned with ground and other variables. That Triple Crown chat is a nonsense.
To the chap who thought it was a good festival - you need your head examined. I respect that races were competitive, but you also need quality to come through in some of the races. Not all, but some.
The World Cup equivalent to me would be Bosnia, USA, Ivory Coast and Colombia getting to the semi finals this summer. Certainly not bad sides, but the competition loses a little magic without some star power.
I'd love for someone to explain to me how Jezki, Vautour, Faugheen, More Of That & Very Wood constitutes the best batch of non-handicap hurdlers for 30 years. Name me a better champion hurdle and better world hurdle in the last 20 years . Novice races are irrelevant, but one of the reasons this wouldn't be the best crop in a long time is because that was last years.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:03 am |
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keithbeaky
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:47 pm Posts: 2407 Location: UK
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
What drugs are you on? Istabraq, Baracouda, Inglis and Big Bucks. I think they were fair horses. Hurricane doesn't act at Cheltenham but agree he won weak Champions. Istabraq didn't. I rate Jezki and More Of That but your thirty year claims are wild, crazy and not of sane mind.
Sire was beaten this season. Sprinter destroyed Cue Card, Sizing Europe and Sommersby. Sire needed to win by twenty lengths to validate your delusions.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:27 am |
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Ubar02
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:04 am Posts: 2119
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
30 years was a typo, meant 20. Not saying these are the best of their respective divisions, only time will tell, but for race with both real quality and real depth, you can't match this years editions with anything from the past 10 or even 20 years- yes istabraq was good, but did he ever at one time face four or five high quality horses who all had a chance of winning? And as for the quality, of this years race, 'one of the greatest', hurricane fly , two times previous winner not even in the places. If that isn't an indicator of a good field then what is- you can claim all you like about hurricane fly not liking cheltenham, but you don't not like cheltenham and win 2 champion hurdles, and for those knocking jezki, he was in a first time hood, which obviously made a difference. As for sire de grugy, getting beaten early season does not mean that is and good as they are for the rest of the season- kauto star was beaten on his first run multiple times. The fact remains that he won the big 3 2 mile chases in a season, which you have to have a good horse to do, beat the same horses as SS without ever looking like he would be beaten, and just because he didn't win by 20 lengths, doesn't mean he was that much worse- big bucks never won the world hurdle by huge margins, but he still always won.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:46 am |
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Frankel2012
Handicapper
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:03 pm Posts: 304
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Jezki is obviously a very good horse and was one of the 5 or 6 in with a shout of winning. My Tent Or Yours had his chance with no excuses and would of won if good enough on the day. Only one with an excuse was The New One and even then no one can say for certain he would of beat the other two. Same with the World Hurdle, Annie Power just not as good as More Of That over that trip and the best horse won. Sire De Grugy has done everything asked of him and is the best 2m Chaser in training at this present time. Sprinter Sacre might never be the same horse and until they meet no one could say for certain Sprinter would blow him away anyway. I think he would win but think people underestimate Sire De Grugy. Mullins star novices might step up next year and do nothing. Mullins doesn't seem to have alot of success with chasers. Things can change in racing. Hurricane Fly i suspect won weak Champion Hurdles and is not on the same level as Istabraq who possibly could of won 4.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:32 am |
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ghostzapper74
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am Posts: 4105 Location: Wales
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
2009 Stayers Hurdle, U had three horses rated 170+ Big Bucks- Punchestown-Kasbah Bliss
Even After this race u going to have two. I think More of that will have 172-171+ and Annies going to have 170-169+.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:32 am |
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Frankel2012
Handicapper
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:03 pm Posts: 304
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Annie Power will not go over 3m hurdling again. She won't reach her potential over that trip. Either Champion Hurdle or Chasing next season. Hope they don't go the Mares Hurdle route cos it will be an absolute waste. She will have to face other Mullins horses cos they won't be able to avoid each other
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:41 am |
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ghostzapper74
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am Posts: 4105 Location: Wales
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
The Champion Chase
There is one horse that is a great measuring stick- Sizzing Europe.
Sire de Grugy beat him 10L = 10L Sprinter Sacre beat him 19L +4 = 23L Finians Rainbow beat him1.5L +9 =10.5L
He's rated the same As Finians than Sprinter.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:49 am |
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SuperCat
Group 1 winner
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:19 am Posts: 2055
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Just my two cents.
I have to say that I have never come out of a festival feeling so underwhelmed. I haven't even watched all the races, only the championship ones. But for me the death of Our Connor put a huge dampener on the whole week. It was a very similar fall to the one that killed Darlan last year too.
Add to that there were a couple of odd results and the Gold Cup was just weird. I'm so pleased Lord Windermere won for Jim Culloty because I was a big fan of his in the Best Mate days, but the finish was a joke. They went WAY too fast from the off and then there were two sets of interference arguably both caused by Silviniaco Conti which kind of ruined the finish. I doubt Bob's Worth would have won, but had S/C not galloped in front of him he wouldn't have swerved and so wouldn't have lost all that ground and nearly lost B/G. Then had S/C not galloped in the other direction towards Lord Windermere there wouldn't have been interference in that direction either. It is one of those races you would run again and get a totally different outcome.
All in all, there was some really competitive racing, but still I have come away feeling rather disappointed with it all. Also the ground looked way too hard, what is wrong with Chelts and Aintree. What's wrong with real good to soft ground?!
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:46 am |
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Pommard
Group 2 winner
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm Posts: 779
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
I agree with everything you say apart from one thing Cat. I think they went very slow (for a championship race) in the gold cup. Watching the whole field bunched up with less than a mile to go vindicates this in my opinion. I have always felt that the ground at Cheltenham is a disgrace and they need to rip out the artificial drainage system. There has to be a serious problem if after the wettest winter on record they have to water in early March! Conversely Aintree has the most fantastic turf and good to firm ground there has more spring and give than the so called good to soft at Cheltenham.
Last edited by Pommard on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:10 pm |
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pjrhodes1970
Group 1 winner
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 pm Posts: 15151 Location: Republic of Ireland
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Re: CHELTENHAM FESTIVAL
Agree with you Cat Chetenham leaves me feeling a little deflated a bit of an anticlimax The loss of Our Connor is hard to take
Cheltenham 2014 felt like the changing of the guard but thats not a bad thing i do wonder though how many winners of the championship races will retain there championships next season?? will even one of them come back and retain there championship
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Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:24 pm |
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