was gutted to see bobs worth beaten so decisively lacking his trademark powerful finish up the hill. in my opinion henderson has got it all wrong with him this year. he ran the worst race of his life first time out this season at haydock and obviously wasnt fit enough, then 4 or 5 weeks later he was great in the lexus and sprinted to the line. because bobs worth is a year older i think henderson hasnt been able to get him as fit at home as last year for the gold cup without a prep run. if he had given him a prep race at end of january or beginning of febuary he would have won the gold gup easily. the lexus was the only race he has been truly race fit for this season.

I think more of that will be very hard to beat in next seasons world hurdle, we still don't know how good this horse could be. He is still inexperienced and was very innocent infront.

I think u are right about the gold cup, they only went 6seconds quicker than the foxhunters and most of that was turning for home. It's looks like it was just a even pace race. The times in the post are real interesting.

Hurricane Fly's Champion Hurdles weren't great; Countrywide Flame, Rock On Ruby, Peddlers Cross and Oscar Whisky. Cant have any of those im afraid. Istabraq beat better horses with far greater ease. Now what happened when the horses I've mentioned took on Hurricane in Ireland?? They were beaten with real ease. Not just beat a few lengths or going down with a brave effort. They were beaten out of sight and/or without Hurricane coming off the bridle. So I will reiterate that he is a stone lesser horse at Cheltenham and therefore feel his Champion wins aren't great. I backed him the first time he won and thought he was the best Id seen since Istabraq and was disappointed with his win. I had him running to marks in the 170's but that was barely 160. IF he runs in Ireland again and is a price I may just back him against Jezki. Also compare how far he beat Binocular at Cheltenham and then look that he didn't even come off the bridle when beating the same horse in Ireland. So he IS a great horse and because he runs so poorly at Cheltenham he has done extremely well to win two champion hurdles, as average as I think they are. Therefore I wouldn't be using him as a great form line for this years race. Though again I do rate the front three from this week. They are better than most we've seen over the last 5-10 years. Sublmity, Katshit and Punjabi were glorified handicappers.

Big Bucks is the best staying hurdler I and many others have seen. Whatever you think of jockeys and trainers I dont think they are all wrong about him either. Nicholls rates him a better horse than Kauto. Walsh said if you skinned him you'd find metal underneath.

I see where you're coming from with hurricane fly, however I don't agree, I would say binocular never ran to his best for whatever reason in Ireland, producing his best form at cheltenham, and when he ran in that Irish champion was past it, I think hurricane fly is a solid horse and a good yardstick but nothing more, these new horses are a class apart. Also , I don't see how anyone could rate big bucks above kauto star, what he did was impressive but in a far weaker division than the 3m chasing and for me kauto star is the best horse in the last 50 years (discounting the latter stages of arkle's career, the two being incomparable.)

I will always say that Desert Orchid was a better horse than Kauto.

2m Victor H'cap 22lbs to Panto Prince- Hd
2m Tingle Creek h'cap 20lbs to Jim Thorpe- 12L
3m Racing Post h'cap 28lbs to Delius- 8L
3m5 I National h'cap 28lbs to Barney- 12L

What Kauto did doesn't compare to what horses were made to do years ago, it's easy now they just run in grade 1s. In those days the best had to run in h'caps.

Never has Nicholls said Big Bucks is better than Kauto Star. He has said Big Bucks is the best stayer he has trained, which is true, and that if he could jump fences he would be one of the best he has trained along with Kauto and Denman.

Kauto had it all, winning top class races over every distance. With his CV you have to class him as one of the best chasers of all time.

Kauto would easily be ahead of Big Buck's in anyones book. Big Bucks was a brilliant staying hurdler but Kauto could do the lot over various distances. I don't think he was the greatest Gold Cup horse but he was prolific over a flat 3m, near enough unbeatable on his day. Would be very close between him and Desert Orchid. They both had similar profiles. Kauto would have slightly the better record but then again he never gave weight away like Dessie did so would he have won all these races if he had to? I doubt it. Both would be in the top 5 chasers of all time though

Liverpool 2011 after beating Grand Cru easier than he did at Cheltenham. When interviewed Nicholls remarked that Dan Skelton said Big Bucks was the best they'd trained and he had to agree. When asked again later he confirmed he meant best horse whether chaser or hurdler.

Rock On Ruby last year? Ran to his best at Cheltenham and then beaten with such ease over in Ireland. What's the excuse there?

Interesting as a lot would consider some of Kauto's poorest performances to come over a flat 3m. Lami, Snooper Loopy, Our Vic all top class horses. Obviously you'll point to Kempton but those are some poor horses he either got beat by or ran him very close

Horses will never achieve the levels on ratings over chasing of the old days as they don't generally run in handicaps, so horses like kauto would never have their limits truly exposed like Arkle did.
Rock on ruby was beaten further by the fly, 8l, at Punchestown due to the bottomless ground, which is not satisfactory racing ground and which should not decide champions but is the norm at the Punchestown festival, and so favours Irish horses. Compare this to the fact the new one beat him by 10l on better ground and I would say that your point is invalidated.

Hurricane Fly would be a notch below the other champions like Istabraq,See You Then etc if only for the fact he struggles at Cheltenham. It is all about what you achieve there. Istabraq would not be thought of as the best if he didn't win 3 Champion Hurdles. Hurricane Fly just isn't as good. Struggles off a fast pace on good ground which tells me he is not a great. Id be amazed if The New One cannot win at least 1 Champion Hurdle but i think he will win a couple. Kauto won Championship races when he was written off and as an 11 year old. Was a step too far for Big Buck's in the end. Just think Kauto ran against tougher opposition as well than Big Buck's yet achieved more overall. Kind of agree with Ubar on that point

Very good point about the ground for Rock On Ruby. But where would he have finished in this years Champion? A long way behind would by my opinion. Back to point I agree that this years champion was a much better race than in the last TEN years but none are in Istabraq's league. The New One and Vautour look the most likely types to challenge me on that. I backed Jezki and do rate him, My Tent as well, but can't see either improving to levels of greatness. Greatness for me is Kauto, Big Bucks, Frankel, Sprinter Sacre, Moscow Flyer, Istabraq. I'm a more of a jumps man so don't really refer to flat horses much.

Good discussion

Been a while lads, been on to check out whats happening with SO6, looking forward to it.

Champion Hurdle was a nightmare, shame about Our Conor, really liked him on the flat long before he burst on the hurdle scene, have to say I was of the opinion he would never have won a Champion Hurdle as he did not do enough off the bridle but he would have mopped up plenty of Grade 1s in Ireland. Hurricane Fly had only been running to about 165 tops in Ireland this season and factoring in he runs about 5 or 6 below his best at Cheltenham, I knew he wouldnt win, would have been surprised if he made the 3 and if I was a bookie my meeting would have been won or lost on laying him for everything they could throw at 5/1, not the 10 and 20 max some offered. Hes the best Hurdler ive seen but at 10yo he is not the horse he used to be, barring injuries he would already have won 3 Champion Hurdles and a Supreme Novice, its impossible for a horse to be good enough to win a Champion Hurdle at 5yo, which he was, and still be fast enough at 10yo. My Tent as expected pulled too hard early in the race to have enough left to get up the hill in front, the only real surprise for me was that it was Jezki who had too much left for him. Jezki is a good horse and will take some beating at Punchestown because he is a better horse right handed. Obviously the best horse in the race on current ability finished 3rd, felt sorry for STD, he done well to not panic after what happened but his chance was long gone, TNO should be the Champion Hurdler but thats racing.

The less said about the Gold Cup the better