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Grand National 2012
http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6002		 Page 12 of 12
Author:  Bill Seiko [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
And if no prosection, no publicity, who cares about a few ponies certainly not the RSPCA.
I had dealing with them years when I rescued a starving pony, within 24 hours they found out about it but farmer would not let them near it. Then about 3 weeks later they came with a warrant by which time the pony was bouncing due to plenty good quality food and it kicked the RSPCA man, we were all in stitches laughing at the interfening idiots only looking for a court case. They never bothered asking who I got it from because by then they had no case.

Bill
Author:  exxplozion [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
Neptune Collonges won the National fair and square, and he would beat Sunnyhillboy again if they raced it again end of story!!
Author:  Ubar02 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
exxplozion wrote:
Neptune Collonges won the National fair and square, and he would beat Sunnyhillboy again if they raced it again end of story!!

Agreed! He was the better horse anyway, won 3 grade 1s in the past.
Author:  pjrhodes1970 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
a class horse
Author:  anubisrich [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
exxplozion wrote:
Neptune Collonges won the National fair and square, and he would beat Sunnyhillboy again if they raced it again end of story!!


Having seen a picture of the whip marks on Neptune Collonges I am inclined to agree with you, especially if the jockey bookings remain the same after all this is the Grand National where the winner is whoever beats their horse over the line the hardest.
Author:  Blakey66 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
Ubar02 wrote:
After all accidents can happen anywhere. Gottanyos broke down on the flat. Rewinding broke down on the flat. Fox hunt broke down on the flat. Echo of light a Darley stallion was killed in a paddock accident. Horses are killed in show jumping every year, yet the RSPCA never kick up a fuss about that. It seems you hear more about the 'appaling' conditions racehorses have to put up with, getting the 5 star treatment, than you do about ex-riding horses rotting away on their own in a field. More horses are poorly treated in other walks of life than in racing, this is what they should focus on.


It's all about publicity.... The National is front page headline news, a simple comparison on how different it is would be to look at the farcical start situation, if that had been a 2 mile chase at Perth on a Tuesday afternoon they could have been strung out like last weeks washing at the start and he'd have let them go, but 4 and a half miles round Aintree and the glory hunting starter wants them all lined up together.
Author:  panther [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
anubisrich wrote:
Having seen a picture of the whip marks on Neptune Collonges I am inclined to agree with you, especially if the jockey bookings remain the same after all this is the Grand National where the winner is whoever beats their horse over the line the hardest.


Quote from Paul Nicholls: "...there's not a scratch on him, which is just what you want to see at the end of a Grand National".

Having watched the run-in again though, I must say I completely agree that it was an appalling ride from Richie McLernon, to only make use of the whip twice and then just try to hang on. It was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for him to win a Grand National, and he completely blew it, on a horse that probably would have won that race with pretty much any other jockey on the run-in. In saying that though, I'm quite happy that he got caught, as Sunnyhillboy was one of the horses that I ruled out of my selections at the very last minute, so I really didn't want him to win!
Author:  HurricaneRun [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
I watched the run in again and Mclernon definitely goes far easier on his mount than Daryl Jacob so I think i would feel similarly aggrieved if i had backed sunnyhillboy
Author:  SuperCat [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
I think he thought he had the race won and didn't see or hear Neptune until the line when it was too late. But although he hasn't been race riding as long as Daryl Jacob he should have done enough research into the race to find out that unless you have a problem you HAVE to push the horse all the way to the line. But what if the horse was making a noise, or felt a bit lame, or was beginning to wobble at the end. Maybe there was another reason he didn't push the horse all the way, unless we hear from the O'Neil yard we won't know, I would certainly not ever condone someone pushing a horse on harder just to win the race if he thought it had gone wrong...

On the issue with the RSPCA, I think it's all about publicity and getting a big case in the media to try and show that they aren't as useless as most of us think. We have ended up adopting about 10 cats over the years because they've been abandoned or the mother has been killed (have lived and kept horses around farms so you see it a lot) and called the RSPCA and they just aren't interested. EVERYONE who has had a dealing with them knows it is better to call a smaller charity like Cats Protection, Redwings, World Horse Welfare (ILPH or whatever it's called) or even a local horsey person about a cruelty case over the RSPCA. Unless it is something which the police or the fire brigade therefore the local and sometimes national media need to get involved with in my experience the RSPCA aren't interested.

On the National I think that as others have said the number of runners needs to be looked at, I think 25-30 max if they're all going to bunch up the inside like they seem to. Make the fences a proper test. Give horses more experience, either trial races horses must have finished at least 2 or 3 trial races to make it to the final. Also look at jockey experience, I don't think that jockeys have enough experience riding in that kind of test as they should. But if they're going to start messing with taking fences away then they may as well scrap it.

On the subject of Katy Walsh, she was just incredible on Seabass. Along with Richard Johnson (who must have had one of the best rides ever) you could tell that she has a lot of experience riding not only races but actual HORSES in REAL situation away from the racecourse. She is a very sucessful event rider and it really showed. Put someone else on Seabass and I guarantee it wouldn't jump half as well, why do you think Ted put her up over Ruby?? I know Ruby has allegiences to Mullins but like he would pass up riding a National winner for his father if it was his choice... I honestly think that jockeys need a lot more experience riding over those fences and National prospects should probably have to go out hunting too to gain the experience needed for it.
Author:  Blakey66 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
Question marks about the size of the field, why not do what they do in the distance track races in athletics, two "separate races" over first 4 fences, 20 either side of temporary rails, easily removed for the second circuit and it allows time for the field to settle down and spread out a bit.
Author:  exxplozion [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
I think the National should stay as it is, why change a part of history, won't be the same if it was changed. Horses sadly die on racetracks and jockeys succumb to career ending injuries. It's how it is and how it's always been and sadly things don't go right for everybody but that's racing and I feel so sorry for any horse or jockey that doesn't make it back in one piece but why change a race, just don't put your horses in the race...they all know the risks involved in each and every race at every racetrack in the world.
Author:  Ubar02 [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
exxplozion wrote:
I think the National should stay as it is, why change a part of history, won't be the same if it was changed. Horses sadly die on racetracks and jockeys succumb to career ending injuries. It's how it is and how it's always been and sadly things don't go right for everybody but that's racing and I feel so sorry for any horse or jockey that doesn't make it back in one piece but why change a race, just don't put your horses in the race...they all know the risks involved in each and every race at every racetrack in the world.

Well said!
Author:  tombc [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
I for one would not see The Grand National tinkered with too much just to appease a few, now if you want to mention the word cruelty have a look at this (sorry couldnt put a click link) SEE IT THROUGH MY EYES www.youtube.com
Author:  anubisrich [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
panther wrote:
anubisrich wrote:
Having seen a picture of the whip marks on Neptune Collonges I am inclined to agree with you, especially if the jockey bookings remain the same after all this is the Grand National where the winner is whoever beats their horse over the line the hardest.


Quote from Paul Nicholls: "...there's not a scratch on him, which is just what you want to see at the end of a Grand National".



Don't get the wrong impression, I am most definitely pro whip, but the marks were clear post race which shows the degree of force used. It is easier to see on a grey horse for sure, just like if someone smacked your bare ass! It illustrates the difference between McLernon and Jacob in horsemanship. The jockey is basically there to tell the horse when to try harder and use it's gas. Mclernon failed horribly and should retire.
Author:  exxplozion [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grand National 2012
Ubar02 wrote:
exxplozion wrote:
I think the National should stay as it is, why change a part of history, won't be the same if it was changed. Horses sadly die on racetracks and jockeys succumb to career ending injuries. It's how it is and how it's always been and sadly things don't go right for everybody but that's racing and I feel so sorry for any horse or jockey that doesn't make it back in one piece but why change a race, just don't put your horses in the race...they all know the risks involved in each and every race at every racetrack in the world.

Well said!

Cheers Ubar :D
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