St Nicholas Abbey would have won that Derby field by the same margin maybe even further im guessing. Would like to see them race each other but again they most probably will be kept apart. They have ruled out the Juddmonte now and a clash with Frankel and that is fair enough if preparing for the Leger. If he is that good and saying he is the best he has ever trained then he has to put Camelot against Frankel in the Champion Stakes. Go Arc with St Nic and the Champion with Camelot.

I think they will have a racecourse gallop or an easy race like the Great Voltigeur at York before the Leger. After the Leger he will have one more run somewhere and that is a choice out of the Arc,Champion or Breeders Cup with the Champion being the least likely cos of Frankel. That will be the only time he will face older horses and i wouldnt be surprised if they retire him after the Leger.

They're not going to race him in a group 2, he will have to give weight away, he should race in the king George. In still hopeful he will be kept in training next season, would make more sense commercially as well.

I really don't think they care about commercial value if they are going for the Leger!

So, not only are you comparing Camelot's achievements with those of Sea The Stars, you are also saying Frankel can't be compared with Camelot yet?

Sorry, but Sea The Stars achieved a LOT more than Camelot has done so far, and while Frankel hasn't raced beyond a mile, he has at least raced against older horses, both as a 3yo and a 4yo. I know that Camelot has won over different distances, but only against what is generally regarded to be the weakest crop of 3yo for many years.

Im not comparing Camelot to Sea The Stars yet, you can do that at the end of the season, what Sea The Stars done will probably never be matched but Camelot is putting himself into the debate with the other greats who won the Guineas and Derby and the other great middle distance horses. Frankel is not in that debate yet because he hasnt ran beyond mile.

No need to say sorry because I at no point said Camelot has achieved more than Sea The Stars At this stage of their respective careers, Camelot has achieved more because he won a Group 1 at 2 and is still unbeaten, but it remains to be seen if can go on to do anything like what Sea The Stars went on to do. Winning the triple crown makes him the first horse to do it since Nijinsky, and regardless of what anyone wants to say about the Leger, if Camelot does it, he is one of the greats, end of story.

Is this years 3yo crop any worse than last years?

I didn't say that you said Camelot has achieved more. I commented on the fact that you were comparing their achievements, as you said that Frankel couldn't yet be included in the discussion with Sea The Stars and Camelot about achievements.

As for saying Camelot has achieved more up to this stage of his career, I would argue against that, as I think Sea The Stars' win against older horses in the Eclipse by this stage in his career outweighs Camelot's 2yo G1, especially when you also add to that the fact that Camelot probably won't be taking on older horses now until October. By October, Sea The Stars had already beaten older horses in three of Europe's biggest races.

If he wins another race after the Leger against older horses then il say he is a great. Is that fair?

Yeah seems fair, nothing great at all about an unbeaten Guineas and Derby winner, they are ten a penny.

The Eclipse hasnt been run yet, we are talking about this exact stage

In my eyes a great horse is one that beats older horses and runs over different distances on all sorts of ground. Id say Frankel is the greatest miler but not the greatest horse ever. Until he does it over further i accept he cannot be the greatest ever.

Haha, ok, when Camelot wins the Eclipse I will take that back

The Eclipse is a better race than the irish derby because its against older horses. Its more prestigious so in that sense Sea the Stars is easily winning on achievements so far. Its going to be really hard for Camelot to match him and he will have to win another race after the Leger

Camelot wont match Sea The Stars, we probably won see another horse match what Sea The Stars done, but he is making his own way and its unfair to say if you dont match Sea The Stars you are not a great horse.

Well id like to see them have a go and see what happens. If not then u cant say Camelot is better at the end of his career. It would be nice for people to debate and say who they thought was better but first Camelot has work to do. They can get close if they win the Leger and then a top race after against older horses