pjrhodes1970 wrote:
as a racing fan i think it would be great to see a triple crown winner again i have never seen 1 in my lifetime
Here you go PJ. That's Pierro, a Triple Crown Winner. From this year no less.
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| Camelot only 123 http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6478 |
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| Author: | nick_driver [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Chill out everyone, they are all great horses... But we all know Born To Sea actually won it, and I have proof, check out the cameo from camelot on the near rail... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPu6CJNlFrw |
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| Author: | Ubar02 [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Frankel2012 wrote: In my eyes a great horse is one that beats older horses and runs over different distances on all sorts of ground. Id say Frankel is the greatest miler but not the greatest horse ever. Until he does it over further i accept he cannot be the greatest ever. Running over different distances-versatility is the mark of a champion for sure, but if a horse is beaten a nose by the greatest miler ever over a mile, the greatest 1m2 horse over 1m2 and the greatest 1m4 horse over 1m4. Camelot is more versatile(on paper) than frankel but does it mean he's better? No. Sea bird, previously best horse ever, only won over 1m4 at his best. And the ground comment is ridiculous- if a horse is unbeatable on good to firm and demolishes the opposition every time but then runs on heavy and is beaten by a mud lover- does that make him not a great? Arkle is rated higher than kauto star, even though kauto has won over three different distances, because on paper at 3miles he was better. To say Camelot is better than frankel because he has won over more distances is ludicrous. I wager if frankel were to race him over 1m2 it would be no contest and frankel could win over 6f July cup as well. |
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| Author: | Ubar02 [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Frankel2012 wrote: In my eyes a great horse is one that beats older horses and runs over different distances on all sorts of ground. Id say Frankel is the greatest miler but not the greatest horse ever. Until he does it over further i accept he cannot be the greatest ever. Running over different distances-versatility is the mark of a champion for sure, but if a horse is beaten a nose by the greatest miler ever over a mile, the greatest 1m2 horse over 1m2 and the greatest 1m4 horse over 1m4. Camelot is more versatile(on paper) than frankel but does it mean he's better? No. Sea bird, previously best horse ever, only won over 1m4 at his best. And the ground comment is ridiculous- if a horse is unbeatable on good to firm and demolishes the opposition every time but then runs on heavy and is beaten by a mud lover- does that make him not a great? Arkle is rated higher than kauto star, even though kauto has won over three different distances, because on paper at 3miles he was better. Dawn run won the champion hurdle an the gold cup so by your definition she is te greatest, yet the best in either discipline would have beaten her if they were around at the time. To say Camelot is better than frankel because he has won over more distances is ludicrous. I wager if frankel were to race him over 1m2 it would be no contest and frankel could win over 6f July cup as well. |
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| Author: | Frankel2012 [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Frankel is my favorite horse but i try not to favour certain horses and be biased compared to alot of people on here who just defend their favourites. I think he could win over 1m2 and 6f as well easily but im not saying he would cos he hasnt done it yet. Thats all im saying. It looks like he will but you can never be certain until they prove it and thats what its all about. If they thought like you do then they wouldnt be stepping him up would they but they are so they must wanna prove something. And the ground thing is all about the overall package. If a horse goes on anything then surely that is a big advantage. Mill Reef went on heavy so if he raced another great like himself he would be favoured |
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| Author: | Ubar02 [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
If frankel was my horse I would step him up, I'm just saying that versatility is not necessary for a great horse. E.g dayjur was one of the true greats, but he still wouldn't win the ascot gold cup would he? And yes, while brig able to run on different grounds is a useful asset, a horse that can isn't necessarily a great horse, and a great horse doesn't necessarily go on lots of different grounds. |
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| Author: | Frankel2012 [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Im just saying maybe it would be easier when comparing just the great horses working out their strengths and weaknesses and what they've achieved. Dayjur was just a sprinter and prob one if not the best ever. I think if a horse isnt versatile then it takes alot away when comparing them. They are all great horses but its just how great. Thats my point of view on the matter |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Lads no one is a bigger fan of frankel than me he is a champion the best ever this time in his 3yo career he had won a guineas & st James ps Camelot is also a champion and has won rpt guineas derby irish derby in the same time frankel won 2 both champions in there own right as a racing fan i think it would be great to see a triple crown winner again i have never seen 1 in my lifetime and even though some of you dont rate it as much of a achievement i certainly do. and thankfully also do magnier,tabor,smith |
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| Author: | Frankel2012 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
All the champions that are rated at the top in timeform have beaten older horses though. He is champion of the 3yos yes but cant be compared with the others until he faces the challenge they faced and come through it. This crop could be average and he is winning his races cos their is nothing to challenge him. He has to step up and show he is better than the rest as well. I think he could be but i feel he has to win a top race after the Leger to cement his reputation. Nijinsky after it raced against its own age in Guineas,Derby and Irish Derby then stepped up to beat older horses in King George. Now Camelot is sticking to his own age group til the Leger then might retire and may never get to face that challenge. I fear we may never see him face older horses and if that happens he will not compare to all the others in my book. Do you even think he would beat St Nicholas Abbey? |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
NIJINSKY - TRIPLE CROWN WINNER 1970 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF0Qe7x9P3c |
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| Author: | Frankel2012 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
We are talking about Camelot not Nijinsky. Everyone knows how good Nijinsky was |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
i did not say you were talking about NIJINSKY i posted a link to a video that i made thats all chill out |
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| Author: | Frankel2012 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
I am chill. Just a misunderstanding. Just thought by putting that up you were trying to get some sort of point across |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
Frankel2012 wrote: I am chill. Just a misunderstanding. no prob mate |
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| Author: | TysonM [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
pjrhodes1970 wrote: as a racing fan i think it would be great to see a triple crown winner again i have never seen 1 in my lifetime Here you go PJ. That's Pierro, a Triple Crown Winner. From this year no less.
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Camelot only 123 |
looks a very nice horse Tyson super What will his targets be at 3yo |
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