did you just watch the same derby I did? how on earth can you say he wasn't pulling any further at the finish? You obviously neber ridden a horse if thats the case or being near one. Go look at his stride action towards the end and say hes not pulling further. I'm not a major fan of coolmore but talk about talking through your arse.

Then thing I love about Camelot is just how calm he is. Nothing seems to bother him and in some ways he reflects the O'Briens quite a lot!

Over half a second faster than St Nic, have to say its a solid performance considering jockey said he didnt really handle the track. Astrology and Main Sequence have only had a few runs and who knows how good they are, one of them was unbeaten before today and the other won the Dee by 11 lengths in a canter, they were beaten 5 lengths and it was another 6 back to Thought Worthy who had solid form with Noble Mission and Imperial Monarch and was expected to improve for the step up in trip, compared to recent renewals I wouldnt say it was any worse or any better. Seems every year its a weak derby field after the race but I think Camelot produced a top class performance, I would go so far as too say it was a stronger performance, pound for pound, than Sea The Stars produced in the Derby and if he keeps on improving I wouldnt bet against him in any middle distance race. He has it all and id only consider Frankel against him at this stage.

I've just watched the race again, and sorry, but he wasn't pulling any further away at the end. In the last half furlong he was running at the same pace as Main Sequence, who looked like he still had a lot of running left in him. The Derby is 1m4f with a downhill finish; the St Leger is just short of 1m7f on a flat course - all I was saying is that it seems an unnecessary risk to put him in the St Leger purely for the sake of history, especially when it might affect his chances in the Arc, which is only three weeks later.

An unnecessary risk purely for the sake of history? That's like saying getting jonny wilkinson to drop kick that goal in the world cup was an uneccessary risk for the sake of history. Why would you want them to pass up on an opportunity like this. Unlike main sequence, he had no one to race and Joseph had him back on the bridle again. If he had pushed him the whole way he would have won by further.

Sorry, but it is an unnecessary risk. Apart from the fact that the Arc is six times more valuable than the Leger, it is also infinitely more prestigious these days. Camelot would only be running in the Leger to create history and win the triple crown; there is no other incentive. When he is retired to stud, having the Arc on his CV is going to make him far more valuable than having the St Leger. Yes, they can say he's a triple crown winner, but when it comes to breeding in Europe, nobody needs a horse that can stay 1m7f; they want horses that win the top races at 1m to 1m4f, as there is no money to be won in longer races. To take a horse like Camelot to Doncaster purely for the sake of history would be crazy, especially if it puts running in the Arc at risk.

I'm coming round to the Leger idea now. This 3yo crop are donkeys, absolutely terrible. If Camelot goes to the Leger he'll get an easy pace in a small field, quicken up and put it to bed quickly.

In the Arc it will depend on the draw, the ground and the trip he gets through the race. Am I right in thinking the WFA allowance isn't that much in the Arc? It's a rough race.

Just watched the replay, Main Sequence didn't want to go forward when Camelot drew alongside Thought Worthy (may not have been space) and in those crucial seconds Camelot was gone. He maintained the gap but couldn't close it. Only other horse to run with credit really.

He has won the derby. You can't get much bigger than that. I think the way to race him would be the king George next, st leger, then the champion stakes and bring him back as a four year old.

Camelot at 2 or 3/1 for the Arc or Nathaniel at 25's? Or even Danedream at 14's as much as I think it was a flash in the pan win last year. I hope they go Leger as I agree with Rich on the current crop because if they show up in the Arc (which in my opinion they will) it could either a great idea if it wins or a very bad one if it gets trounced! Be interesting to see the French Derby today, I think they and we will find out how good it really is on the showing of Imperial Monarch as I think if IM makes the top 3 then on form, Camelot could quite be a superstar. Same could be said if French Fifteen goes close.

Currently, the Arc is by far the highest-quality and most prestigious turf race in the world. So, if you've got the best 1m4f turf horse in the world, why on earth would you avoid it to race in a stayers' race instead that is only worth a fraction of what the Arc is worth in terms of prize money and prestige, just for the sake of saying you've got a triple crown winner?

Hard to see what Imperial Monarch has to beat. Ektihaam maybe but he's not drawn particularly well. French Fifteen may have a chance off a slower pace but with 20 runners I think that's unlikely. Kesampour hasn't shown G1 form yet and is priced on connections rather than ability.

I like the jockey booking for Albion, think Frankie can get a decent tune out of him.

Have to remember though that imperial monarchs performance was enhanced by the ground. Particularly testing conditions, and he got by far the best ground under a good ride from Joseph.

I personally thought it was a pointless waste of time going that wide and the horse was good enough not to make him look like an idiot... For that reason I think the performance was at least 5 lengths better than the result suggested which puts him on par with Main Sequence and Astrology. Plenty of room for improvement and will appreciate the step up in trip.

Imperial Monarch is a place lay

Lucky doc, he was clearly the best horse in the race and did astonishingly well to get so close given the trouble in running.