listen to that advice nick!!

workforce is not a patch on the other two

Can I just say that saying that he ran a faster time than st nic doesnt make him a champion, it puts him in the first 3 in the arc at the min,

I WANT Camelot to be an all time great but for me he still has to prove it, guineas/ derby double is an amazing achievement but lets be honest he got a walkover in the derby, however that in itself says something about the horse when others were afraid to face him,


Couldn't agree more with this



You are kind of missing the point hurricane, Frankel is the best in the world officially and unofficially, he is the baddest cat on the track at the min, he has nothing to prove so its up to the others to challenge him if they want to be the best in the world

quel , u are kind of contradicting yourself there mate - u cannot say that about Frankel and not apply the same logic to Black Caviar!!!!!

Everything u said about Frankel applies to her and i see no reason why she should step up to a mile to face Frankel

except she is not the best in the world, he is

Haha, Doc if you read my posts on here about Workforce from a few years ago when me and PJR were fighting the Anti-Workforce corner haha you'll see that I was far from it's biggest fan!! a la viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5103&start=15 I just had to find that 3rd wheel!

I would actually have 3 year old workforce on a par with zarkava, record derby time and he beat a quality arc field, and at 4 he was pretty unlucky not to win the king George, he hung left and he was giving a huge amount of weight away to nathaniel. However I would have sea the stars well above both zarkava and workforce, as he was (almost) unbeatable.

quel - to be honest the Frankel bumming on here is getting kind of insane !!!

So he is the best in the world, the best of all time, yet Black Caviar MUST travel the world to race internationally to prove her status

Can someone therefore tell me why Frankel doesn't have to do the same? Why did he not go and win the Breeders Cup mile?? He is so bubble wrapped (which i understand by the way) but then people have the audacity to criticise Black Caviar in the way that they do - so hypocritical and fair play to Moody for sending her over.

spot on hurricane frankel was certainly overprotected as a 3yo

oh and officially he is not the best ever timeform all time global rankings below

sea bird 145
Brigadier Gerard, Tudor Minstrel 144
frankel 143

he could well goto 146 b4 end season

please please please do not say that the horses here are superior to everywhere else so that means Frankel doesnt have to travel; if someone says this i may die of frustration because Australian sprinters are superior to ours so the same would again apply to BC

his 3yo career was nothing on Sea The Stars 3yo career and even at the end of his 4yo career I can see myself comparing their records and thinking that STS 3yo campaign was better and more prestigous than Frankel's 3 and 4yo season combined.

Where Frankel gets higher rated is the way he casts aside the opposition and blows them away, STS often won by 1 length or two and rarely a huge margin

BUT Mick Kinane said he never had to push STS 100% in any race and he obviously looked after the horse so that he was able to win all of those big races in one season - a lot of his wins were far easier than the winning margin suggests. Plus his win in the arc was absolutely incredible, he was pulling hard at the start, shuffled backwards in the field, short of room after turning for home and the turn of foot after all that, as soon as the slightest of gaps appeared, was the mark of a champion!!

I do agree with Rich, like I said, that Frankel is the best miler of all time but in my opinion versatility is an attribute to admire and I think what STS did will never be bettered!! Its the same reason I adore Kauto Star and see him as being the greatest of all time, to be top rated at 2mile - 3mile plus at the same time is stupidly good.

How was Frankel over protected?

Dancing Brave did what STS did and threw in a King George i believe?


STS Arc win was against a modest bunch and the pace of the race suited horses held up. There is no doubt he was a great horse but because he never won by 5 you cant rate him as high as Frankel or the greats from the past.

I don't recall saying that BC wasn't by far the best SPRINTER in the world, and I never said Frankel was the highest rated horse ever?

And how was Kauto Star top rated at 2m and 3m+ at the same time?

Apologies I remember him winning the Tingle again? My brain just says he never won a Queen Mum. But that was a bad year for 2m chasers. A year either side and he wouldn't have been. But you are right.

Believe it or not I do in my heart believe Frankel is the best racehorse ever but what I am saying is i have more respect atm for STS because of his 3yo campaign!! I would love to see Frankel step up to 12f , maybe for the Juddmonte and the Champion stakes and maybe also go to America for the Breeder's cup - after all he is named after a USA trainer who would not doubt love the horse named after him to win at their biggest event!!!

Keith - I kind of agree with you about Kauto at 2miles but remember he was strong favourite for a queen mum when he fell. He won two tingle creek chases and his second win was against Voy Por Ustedes, who was Arkle champion and also went on to win the Queen Mum 3 months later. Kauto Star cast him aside in this race the same way Frankel casts aside class horses like Excelebration! At a further distance we need not even bother talking about him and the way he destroyed horses in the King Georges!