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keithbeaky wrote:

pjrhodes1970 wrote:

i agree he could win the irish derby with 4 or 5 others i would rather him go for the KG or juddmonte i also think st nic clouds the decision
making process when it comes to camelot

he is not going to add to his rep winning the irish derby by miles he would by winning kg by 4 or 5 l

Matt when i put them derby winning times up was not saying one was beter than the other because he ran quicker times was just stating it was a well above adverage derby winning time as most considered it a poor derby the time was actually solid

I dont think it was a terrible Derby. I actually think he won very easily and saw the trip out in full. I also think he will be a better horse on a more galloping track. However you could say St Nic was more impressive on the clock because the pace of his race wasn't as generous, though i haven't even checked the sectionals so it might not have been. For me Sir Percy's race was an awful Derby

HurricaneRun wrote:

Put your 'superstar' in a superstar race to prove he is what you say he is. King George, Juddmonte, Leger, Arc. If he wins all four i'll pay his breeding fee and let him give me one because that is how much respect i would have for him

anubisrich wrote:

HurricaneRun wrote:

LOLOLOLOLOL

Nasty Nas8 wrote:

To suggest Frankel has been protected by connections, when it has all but been announced Camelot will retire at the end of this year, is laughable. He has been kept in training to prove he is the best, not to make a quick buck for his owner, and when the time is right, he will dominte at 10f, Camelot and all.

keithbeaky wrote:

For me Sir Percy's race was an awful Derby

quelesprit wrote:

keithbeaky wrote:

For me Sir Percy's race was an awful Derby

Also in Sir percy's race were:
Dylan Thomas-6 G1 wins
Sixties Icon-Classic winner
Septimus- G1 winning 128 rated horse
Papal Bull-Runner up in multiple open G1s

Bad race? come on bud :roll:

quelesprit wrote:

Ye are entitled to your opinions but you can not argue with facts, and the facts say papal bull was a well above average horse even if he was a pig

Ubar02 wrote:

quelesprit wrote:

Ye are entitled to your opinions but you can not argue with facts, and the facts say papal bull was a well above average horse even if he was a pig

Needed the right jockey though.

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
keithbeaky wrote: pjrhodes1970 wrote: i agree he could win the irish derby with 4 or 5 others i would rather him go for the KG or juddmonte i also think st nic clouds the decision making process when it comes to camelot he is not going to add to his rep winning the irish derby by miles he would by winning kg by 4 or 5 l Matt when i put them derby winning times up was not saying one was beter than the other because he ran quicker times was just stating it was a well above adverage derby winning time as most considered it a poor derby the time was actually solid I dont think it was a terrible Derby. I actually think he won very easily and saw the trip out in full. I also think he will be a better horse on a more galloping track. However you could say St Nic was more impressive on the clock because the pace of his race wasn't as generous, though i haven't even checked the sectionals so it might not have been. For me Sir Percy's race was an awful Derby still bags of improvement in him too id say he only at 75% for derby i rate him highly for winning the guineas trip was way too short so i rate it higher than the derby win

Author:	anubisrich [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
HurricaneRun wrote: Put your 'superstar' in a superstar race to prove he is what you say he is. King George, Juddmonte, Leger, Arc. If he wins all four i'll pay his breeding fee and let him give me one because that is how much respect i would have for him LOLOLOLOLOL

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
anubisrich wrote: HurricaneRun wrote: Put your 'superstar' in a superstar race to prove he is what you say he is. King George, Juddmonte, Leger, Arc. If he wins all four i'll pay his breeding fee and let him give me one because that is how much respect i would have for him LOLOLOLOLOL

Author:	Nasty Nas8 [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
To suggest Frankel has been protected by connections, when it has all but been announced Camelot will retire at the end of this year, is laughable. He has been kept in training to prove he is the best, not to make a quick buck for his owner, and when the time is right, he will dominte at 10f, Camelot and all.

Author:	quelesprit [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
Nasty Nas8 wrote: To suggest Frankel has been protected by connections, when it has all but been announced Camelot will retire at the end of this year, is laughable. He has been kept in training to prove he is the best, not to make a quick buck for his owner, and when the time is right, he will dominte at 10f, Camelot and all. Couldn't have said it better myself! keithbeaky wrote: For me Sir Percy's race was an awful Derby Also in Sir percy's race were: Dylan Thomas-6 G1 wins Sixties Icon-Classic winner Septimus- G1 winning 128 rated horse Papal Bull-Runner up in multiple open G1s Bad race? come on bud

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Author:	panther [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
quelesprit wrote: keithbeaky wrote: For me Sir Percy's race was an awful Derby Also in Sir percy's race were: Dylan Thomas-6 G1 wins Sixties Icon-Classic winner Septimus- G1 winning 128 rated horse Papal Bull-Runner up in multiple open G1s Bad race? come on bud Linda's Lad was another G1 winner in that race, albeit his G1 coming as a 2yo. Sir Percy didn't do much after winning that Derby, but there was certainly a lot of quality horses in the race. I'd be amazed if Camelot's Derby produces anything even close to those stats in terms of the future achievements of his rivals.

Author:	keithbeaky [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
You can keep your stats. Obviously Chelsea are the best team in Europe. Dylan Thomas was ok, his Arc was hardly jammed full of quality, the others are G2 horses. Papa Bull? I think Main Sequence is pretty useful, Thought Worthy was all over the shop at Epsom and did well to finish where he did. He might go to the Leger as well. The others plainly are nowhere near G1 level and were running because of the small field.

Author:	HurricaneRun [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
Main Sequence is a very useful horse - people can take as much as they want away from that derby performance but Camelot did everything right. He didn't race a particularly smart race (raced widest of all at times) and did not really handle the track that well; yet he still wins the race with consummate ease!! Using Papal Bull in your stats argument is the biggest turn off since Ann Widdecombe - awfully average horse!!

Author:	frankelnorthend [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
did papal bull have the dreaded timeform squiggle,i knew it didnt put it all in it wore blinkers to keep its mind on the job

Author:	quelesprit [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
Ye are entitled to your opinions but you can not argue with facts, and the facts say papal bull was a well above average horse even if he was a pig

Author:	Ubar02 [ Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
quelesprit wrote: Ye are entitled to your opinions but you can not argue with facts, and the facts say papal bull was a well above average horse even if he was a pig Needed the right jockey though.

Author:	quelesprit [ Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frankel v Camelot
Ubar02 wrote: quelesprit wrote: Ye are entitled to your opinions but you can not argue with facts, and the facts say papal bull was a well above average horse even if he was a pig Needed the right jockey though. Maybe, but I think he just didn't want to go to the front, when a horse is like that there is nothing that can be done and unfortunately I'm speaking from experience

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