Orfevre drawn 18.....going to be difficult from there, great chance for Camelot I think as long as the ground isnt too soft because his Irish Derby run wouldnt be good enough.

groudsman said yesterday he reckons it will be soft or very soft

Currently soft and light showers expected. Can't see t being very soft. Fancy a Ballydoyle winner

1 2 maybe

Unfortunately I'd say the arc is a race where you can have excuses. Not much running room often. Be interesting to see how Sea Moon runs, very highly regarded obviously, just needs that group 1 on his CV. Couple of interesting French runners too. Will definitely test the strength of the Derby with Camelot, only winner to come out f it was a very tactically ridden Thought Worthy, and he beat nothing in Ireland, despite the ground. The Aga Khan should have 1 in the top 3 surely.

paddy power just gone arc 1,2,3,4
great offer

Great Heavens has a good chance. Ground, weight allowance, draw, jockey and trainer combination all in favour, massive step up in class from anything before and possibly 10/1 still too skinny. Orfevre is screwed from that draw and will have to get a massive slice of luck or be extremely good.

I hope Ryan Moore drops Sea Moon right out the back from that draw and take the chance that they are going to go ridiculously quick. Only way he can win. Soumillon won't take that chance on Orfevre, in fact I think he may get drawn towards the pace in an effort to get a good position and use him up too much.

Ernest Hemmingway interests me if the ground gets any worse, 2nd pacemaker in with a sniff if the pack misjudges the ground.

yes ernist is on pacemaking duty im told
could get an uncontested lead its a shame he looked well on his debut bombed next time out
and there are plenty horses with less talent at ballydoyle that could have done that job
great heaves in the 3yo apart from camelot to be respected the japanaeese horse has been beat by the draw
he would have to be extra special to win from there

To be honest, I think Camelot will win. The 3yo allowance he recieves could be the difference and dont forget his best run was over this distance when a 5l winner in The Derby at Epsom in June. Obrien will surely not want to see this horse lose again and with Dettori booked for a rare ride in the Ballydoyle silks, I am sure he will win on ground that will currently suit him down to the ground. He doesnt want it heavy but neither do the likes of Saonois and Orfevre but at least he won the Irish Derby on heavy. Camelot is a horse ive never backed before but in a weak renewal i am prepared to take a chance on this son of Montjeu at potentially satisfying odds of 3/1$

Tbh, this years Arc Card is slightly dissapointing in comparison to years gone by. Ill be sticking to Fontwell on Saturday and Uttoxeter and Huntingdon on sunday lol.

Timeform offer a runner-by-runner guide to one of the world's premier middle-distance races, the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe...

Sea Moon progressed rapidly in his first four starts to easily land the Great Voltigeur at York before a troubled run arguably cost him success in the St Leger. Concluded 2011 with an excellent effort when second to St Nicholas Abbey in the Breeders' Cup Turf and has got back to winning ways this season, landing his first two races including the Hardwicke Stakes at Royal Ascot. Well backed but not seen to best effect in the King George on his subsequent start and is of interest here.

St Nicholas Abbey is a top-class performer who added to his Group 1 tally with a second successive win in the Coronation Cup at Epsom. Has run consistently well in defeat since, arguably not seen to best effect under a patient ride on two of the three occasions, and would have decent claims to at least matching his fifth-placing in this event last year.

Meandre won three times in 2011, most notably when landing the Grand Prix de Paris, before going on to run well when finishing sixth to Danedream in the Arc. Had excuses first two starts of this year before winning a brace of Group 1's and finishing second to Orfevre in the Prix Foy, but it is difficult to envisage him reversing the form with that rival here.

Mikhail Glinka landed the Group 3 Queen's Vase in 2010 when trained by Aidan O'Brien and has seemingly taken his form to another level in Dubai this year, beating Cavalryman by a length in the Group 2 Dubai City of Gold in March. Didn't need to show the same form to win at Baden-Baden on his most recent start, and is unlikely to be good enough to land this prize.

Robin Hood won a handicap at Leopardstown on his seasonal reappearance but has acted as a pacemaker on his recent starts for superior stablemates, and he seems likely to occupy a similar role here.

Orfevre is a top-class performer and winner of the Japanese Triple Crown. He didn't need to be at his best to defeat Meandre in the Prix Foy, quickening to the lead two furlongs out and having the race won from that point, but a stronger pace would have seen him to greater effect. Japanese horses have often gone well in this event, and he is very much one to note.

Aventino has won four races in Japan, with his last success coming in 2009. Made the pace for stablemate Orfevre in the Prix Foy, and the assumption is that he will do so once more.

Shareta made good progress last season to finish runner-up in this event and has returned to that sort of form on her last three starts, winning the Yorkshire Oaks and the Prix Vermeille on the latter two occasions. Appears to be peaking at the right time and likely to give a good account.

Haya Landa is a smart performer who ran one of his better races when second to Aquamarine in a Group 3 at Chantilly earlier this year. Not disgraced when seventh to Dandino at Kempton last time, but the evidence suggests he is flying too high here.

Solemia has enjoyed a fruitful 2012, winning a listed race at Longchamp and the Group 2 Prix Corrida at Saint-Cloud, beating a below-par Shareta by a nose. Produced a career-best when third to that rival in the Prix Vermeille, but unlikely to be good enough here.

Bayrir boasts an impressive strike rate, having won four of his six starts including the Group 2Prix Eugene Adam and the Grade 1 Secretariat Stakes. Stepped up to this trip and ran well when second to Saonois in the Prix Niel, finding himself in the worst position when things quickened in the straight and only getting on terms in the final furlong. Cannot be discounted completely, although connections appear to have a stronger candidate in Shareta.

Kesampour was successful on his first four starts, all at Saint-Cloud, including a listed event and the Group 2 Prix Greffulhe, with Saonois just over half a length behind in fourth. Beaten by that rival on the last two occasions and, although not disgraced, there is no obvious reason as to why he should reverse the form.

Camelot was unbeaten in two starts as a juvenile and has been this year's champion three-year-old, impressing with victories in the 2000 Guineas and the Epsom Derby. Soft ground seemingly prevented him reaching quite the same heights when winning the Irish Derby and was foiled in his Triple Crown attempt in the St Leger, but has to be afforded the maximum respect here.

Masterstroke has raced only six times to date, resulting in two second-places and four wins including when narrowly beating Gatewood in the Grand Prix de Deauville, making progress early in the straight and staying on strongly. Remains unexposed and is the type to improve further, with a bold showing here not ruled out.

Ernest Hemingway could hardly have been more impressive on debut, winning a weak Dundalk maiden by 10 lengths in an excellent time, and was well backed on his only subsequent start in the Dante at York. Proved to be a let down that day, finding nothing before being eased off, and whilst he's not one to write off it is difficult to see him troubling the principals here.

Saonois looked fairly exposed prior to taking his form up a notch with victory in the Prix du Jockey Club, weaving through the field to hit the front inside the final 50 yards. A three month absence proved to be no sticking point as he once again overcame trouble in running to win the Prix Niel, demonstrating a thoroughly likable attitude, and could be dangerous to write off.

Yellow And Green finished in the places on her first three starts, including when second in Group 3 Prix du Royaumont, and gained her first win in Group 2 Prix de Malleret at Saint-Cloud. Took a step forward when fourth in Prix Vermeille, left with too much to do in rear before finishing best of all and, whilst very much an outsider, it would not be the biggest surprise to see her show up well.

Great Heavens finished fifth on her only start last year but has made great strides this season, winning on each of her four appearances including the Lancashire Oaks and the Irish Oaks. Supplemented for this after same connections', and full-brother, Nathaniel was withdrawn, and she remains open to further improvement so a bold showing cannot be ruled out.

Timeform 1-2-3:
1. Orfevre
2. Camelot
3. Sea Moon

Message from Dancing Brave re Longchamp

Walked the course after racing, it is proper soft ground, holding, lifeless and slow. Racing today has opened it up and if it rains overnight, it'll get quite tacky and testing. Straight seems slowest part of all. light drizzle at the mo, showers expected.

thanks for update DB & Matt
will be a big test tomorrow

Orfevre is a goodthing.

Great Heavens for me worth a tenner

that was brutal just brutal