To be fair we have a lot of meetings over a vast distance country wise. You combine the UK, France & Ireland and you probably have a similar number of meetings and Group 1's to Australia.

i think to Ubar anywhere north south east west of newmarket is foreign and any horse that is not based in newmarket is no good
i have never heard ubar talk positively about anyone any trainer any horse any owner any jockey that is not based in newmarket
not having a pop at him
but thats just the way that it comes over

As for Montjeu Ubar i just can't fathom that comment ubar
are you saying the likes of Pour Moi & Montjeu were sent to other trainers because of the lack of AOB's ability to train horses
mate thats some comment i have to thank you though have not laughed as much in ages oh my that did tickle me

yes i am a huge fan of ballydoyle
but 100% a fan of racing and when i see something special like black cavair or frankel does not matter
who owns trains them just great to watch it & take great enjoyment in watching them
and always give praise when its due not criticize

well ubar's gotta love The Secretariat because he is the greatest that has ever lived..

he was a machine

Belmont was just a scintillating performance oh my devastating
but to ubar he is a donkey not trained by HC @NMKT

only messing ubar mate
i respect your opinion just cant agree with it

In case you hadn't noticed this particular argument was as depreciating towards frankel as black caviar - I'm saying I'd like to see her stepped up in trip, who ch is apparently unreasonable given that she is a sprinter, though apparently it wasn't unreasonable for all the people to criticise frankel for staying at a mile for so long, becaus reheat if he had been an out and out miler? And if aiden O'brien was based in newmarket it would not change my view of him- he could train horses on the moon and I still wouldn't see him as skilful. I respect aiden o brien for what he has chieved, but it is merely the opportunities he has been given and there are many trainers out there far superior to him. Take William Haggas- he has sent 3 horses to Epsom classics and 2 have won- that's a 66% strike rate. When you think about how many runners AOB throws at the big races, and often it's not even the most fancied horse that wins, I just wonder whether he knows who is his best? If any trainer was continuously fed with the stream of well red quality horses aiden o brien is, they pulls achieve as much. Being a trainer is more than the numbers, it's about getting the best out of the horses you've got, something which AOB has regularly failed to do. Bobby frankel being selected to be juddmontes USA trainer- previously he'd had little or no high profile success, but his name kept coming up when Juddmonte crunched the data, because he go the best out of his horses consistently. That's the mark of a truly great trainer.

I couldn't say secretariat is the greatest- nor could I say he is not the greatest. What does swing it for me about him however is he won on turf, which I see is the superior surface, but on the whole it is possible to compare generations, I couldn't say whether he is better or worse than frankel because try bothed raced in completely different continents, 30 years apart. You can compare across continents, or across generations, but not both IMO.

The only problem I have with Frankel is the use of the pacemaker (or lead horse in some races, designed to make sure he had cover and a soft trip). Apart from that one aspect you can't fault Frankel's performances, his sectionals were ridiculous and I would say he was a sprinter who was well trained to run a mile+.

I have to say (sorry Paul!) I partially agree with you Ubar. Whilst I don't think AOB is a below par trainer training good horses because of his connections, I'm not convinced that he would be quite so epic if he didn't have Coolmore to back him up. Whilst I wish him no ill, it would be fascinating to see if he could do as well with what people sent him, like most other trainers have to. He is most certainly nowhere near the likes of Vincent O'Brien, Henry Cecil or even Jim Bolger. Take Bolger as an example, he wasn't happy a few years ago with the horses that were being sent to him, so he started breeding them himself so he could have a higher calibre horse to train.

I'm not a fan of Coolmore, for me they make the flat dull with horse, after horse, after horse being sent out to the big races. It's so closed off and nobody really knows a lot about what goes on behind close doors. (not suggesting foul play, but it makes it a lot more interesting when a trainer/operation is open with the public) I think they have probably ruined more horses than had champions with using pacemakers etc, I can't comment on the hard training because I have no idea what he does with his horses. There was a lovely chestnut colt a couple of years ago whose name completely eludes me, I think he won the Irish Derby and was used again and again as a pacemaker. Then under performed and was sold as a 4yo because he wouldn't settle and was running bad races. I honestly think that they ruined that horse by using him as a pace maker, he was much better than that. BUT it does mean that against his rivals at stud his fee is much lower meaning again Coolmore have more of a monopoly on the market. Having said that I can appreciate that they have bred some beautiful specimens, though I always feel concentrating on quality over quantity like BC's breeder does is the best approach.

This is the constant viscous circle I think the flat world is caught up in, and what DB posted about last week. Everything revolves about money, not the racing which I think is of huge detriment to the sport. With good horses being wasted and ruined due to the greed of a few and then breeding and breeding your top money maker to keep raking in the cash. But that is another issue entirely so I digress. Ubar I partially back you up on this one. Us Newmarket-er's have to stick together!

Respect both your opinions but can't agree AOB was a champion years before he moved to ballydoyle had huge success from 93-96


O’Brien had taken out his trainer's licence in 1993 . In the early stages of his career, he broke all manner of records
held the record for most winners in a season just beaten by Willie Mullins this year
he had huge success right from the start of his career b4 the backing of Coolmore
John Magnier saw something very special in him and signed him up
he is in the position he is because he has earned it and is respected greatly
he is held in as high esteem as Vincent was over here if not higher

& held in very high regard by his fellow trainers including his mentor J.Bolger



just a few opinions from people that know alot more than me
JP Mcmanus - Aidan is a Genius horseman one in a generation
D.Weld - Aidan was a huge success long before coolmore came calling he has achieved a huge amount for someone so young
Sir Alex - Aidan is a master at what he does. he is meticulous and i see alot of my managerial skills in Aidan

Vincent Was a legend
he Also had huge backing from Robert Sangster

Just to go back to comments I had previously not seen, what I meant by the Montjeu point was that he was not trained by o'brien and so didn't have all the class trained out of him, same with hurricane run, whereas when AOB got a similar horse in SYT for the majority of his career he appeared to be nowhere near as good as he should have been until AOB realised his methods were wrong and changed them, and only upon the urging of his son, who though I have my doubts about him as a jockey is a far superior horseman. An analogy I'd use to describe AOBs approach is being handed 100 darts and throwing them simultaneously at a dartboard in the hope of getting a bullseye. This is how he tackles racing in general and is most visible in races like the derby,where he's had 7 runners previously. Contrast to William haggard, who from 3 Epsom classic runners has had 2 winners and you might see where I'm coming from. Cecil's handling of frankel was legendary, turning a horse who won the guineas going 10 lengths clear at halfway to a horse who fell asleep in the stalls in his last race. If AOB had got hold of him he would have ruined him as a 2yo.

Also in response to giddys comments about pacemakers, if they are used correctly, unlike the ridiculous way o'brien uses them, they improve the trueness of the race as they ensure a good pace. But the best part about frankel was if needed he could make the pace as well- see guineas and Sussex stakes.

so begs the question why is he in the job that he is then if you are correct and i'm sure you are never wrong

Because he gets enough winners to satisfy the owners. It's not like he's failing them- it would almost be impossible to fail with that supply of horses, but my point is anyone could be as successful as he is and arguably with some trainers more successful if they were given the same opportunities.

How did he get the job in the first place

they could have chosen anyone

Not being on the coolmore board I can't tell you that but he inherited a yard from his father in law that presumably had a fair bit of support anyway.

Black Caviar retired.

good way for her to go out 25/25 15 g1 wins and £4,652,092 in the bank