Slightly disappointed he isn't going to the arc but I suppose at least he isn't going for the QE2, so hopefully he'll have a decent field to take him on. Any thoughts?

Think that is the right decision. Dont think Frankel has anything to prove by running in the arc and it will be taking an unnecessary risk with the way that race is often ran. Everyone knows he is better than anything in that field anyway so it doesnt matter to me. The Champion is a nice race to close his career and they all know where he is if they want to take him on. If they kept him in training next year would have been the chance to do the arc and mop up all the other races but looks like that will be it after Ascot. Gonna miss him and next year isnt gonna be the same. We will never see another Frankel. A true one off.

I'd like him to have done both but thats just me being greedy and the gap between them is very short.

I'll be at champions day, cant wait!

Not surprised, would have went well against the grain of his career if they had ran in the Arc, Champion stakes will just be another procession, the middle distance horses around just now are average and Buick is dreaming if he thinks Nathniel will give Frankel something to think about over 10f. If you could get Camelot and Cirrus Des Aigles in the Champion stakes it would be good but ill be surprised if either turn up. Great horse Frankel, best miler ill ever see and just as effective at 1m2 but regardless of rating, he isnt getting close to Sea The Stars and Zarkava at the top of my book. Thats just my book though, be a long time before we see another horse achieve what Sea The Stars achieved, Frankel had the ability but unfortunately his connections didnt have the ambition to match, fair play, its their horse and they have wrapped him in cotton wool and went for races that suited him. What annoys me is that I think they could have achieved so much more with him but thats just the way it is, one more easy, never in doubt win and hes gone, no Derby, no Arc, no Breeders Cup, no July Cup, no race with Black Caviar

I dont think you'll ever be a best selling author

I be fair, the race with black caviar would have been a massive anticline ax, and whilst I would have loved to have seen him in the July cup the ground was way too heavy- I can remember seeing ortensia coming in like she'd just finished the national. Have to remember unlike the rest of us armchair trainers Cecil has been around for 60 odd years so he knows what he's doing.Heres hoping they keep him as a 5 year old.

I know he would have destroyed Black Caviar but it could have been a great moment for the sport, not that any of the top owners are interested in sport, the July Cup would just have been to prove a point, a nice easy 6f gallop, wouldnt have effected much would it?

You never know keith, I think alot of people feel they have been sold short, we think we know how good he is but his career has been pretty boring and utterly predictable, no surprises, no dangers, everything for him in every race. When people look back in years to come, people who didnt see Frankel, I can assure you they wont be able to put Frankel above Sea The Stars, Sea The Stars has the races, the form and he even has the times. Frankel will be remebered as a great miler but his cv is a long way off being considered for the greatest of all time.

People want to knock Camelots form, but look at the state of Frankels Guineas, he beat a couple of high class handicappers in an average time. Camelot is going to be a triple crown winner and again, in my book, he might be above Frankel by the end of the season, even though I know Frankel has more ability. What could have been is the question im left with Frankel, especially after York.

Thats just crazy talk mate, did you actually even watch the Guiness?? No other horse could of done that ridden that way. He then shows it doesnt matter how you ride him ( held up last time) he destroys everything. You say he doesnt beat much and there is nothing around but there is its just Frankel beats them that easily they look average. Excelebration is a multiple group winner and would be a star in any other era but Frankel just destroys him. Sea The Stars in my opinion was awesome but Frankel is on par for me

Frankel would have beat sea the stars pretty easily and think that is fairly obvious. It is just nonsense to say he should be going for this race and that race. He has beaten all the best horses one time or another throughout his career and will meet Cirrus Des Aigles in the Champion who is rated higher than anything in that arc field. They cant go for every race. The only way would be to come back next year and go for different races he has yet to win. It is a risk steppin straight up to 1m4 for the arc after just 1 run at 1m2 plus the breeders classic is on dirt and hes never raced on it and why should he.

Thats the point, there is a risk, an element of unknown where he to take part in these races, thats exactly why he wont be involved in them.



They had the chance to be adventurous this year and they still do, going for the Sussex again was laughable, chance to run in the POW against So You Think and then either the Eclipse or King George, both races he would have won if hes as good as we think he is, then after the Juddmonte, Arc and Breeders Cup Classic. Well hes the greatest of all time isnt he? He could have been.

If he had run in the prince of Wales then he wouldn't have run in the queen Anne, even though I do think that should have been his send off over a mile. But Cecil has been in the game for several decades, and is arguably the most successful British trainer ever, I think he knows what he should do with the horse.

Agreed there are only so many races he can race in each year. To do all the others he would need more time and another year in training. The sussex was just a prep for the Juddmonte. Would be amazing if they decided to go another year then it truly would cement his legacy but cant see it now.

I thought Sea The Stars was great but he's nowhere near Frankel. He only raced for one season really (like Zarkava) and therefore only faced one "crop" of horses. He was impressive in the Arc but looking back, it was an awful field. Beating Fame And Glory by 2 lengths over 10f is not great form at all, Frankel would win that race by 15 lengths or more.

Had he stayed in training he would have been attempting to win the Arc for 2 years in a row and giving weight to Workforce, the champion 3yo. No horse has done that in the modern era (I think Alleged was the last). That would have have been legendary. As it is, the only proof we have is that he did pretty well in a below average year. The only proof for Frankel we have is that he is the greatest miler since the Brigadier. Would be great to see him over 12f.

Zarkava raced once against males with a decent WFA allowance. Can't draw much from that, same for Harbinger. All great horses but consistency is the only way to exist in the pantheon of greats. That's why for me, Frankel is on the same plinth as Cigar, Goldikova, Brigadier Gerard and co, the plinth above Sea The Stars/Zarkava etc.

Pretty well said. Same thing is gonna happen with Camelot though he is gonna be below Sea the Stars and Zarkava

I think winning the Triple Crown would put him in the same category as Sea The Stars and Zarkava. It's only beating his age group but it is showing a wide range of distance ability. The 2000 Guineas was absolutely terrible but the Derby was actually alright and he thrashed them. The Leger is definitely not a walkover if Great Heavens, Thought Worthy, Main Sequence and Thomas Chippendale turn up.