glad to see things have been running smoothy since i have been away
any earthshattering racing news in last couple weeks?????
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| Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7269 |
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| Author: | Dancing Brave [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Reply |
Ryan Moore rode both on the track, so I doubt his opinion was solely based on homework. Workforce was a good worker, I have no idea about Harbinger, but I would have to presume that Stoute has seen enough horses down the years to form an opinion judged on more than just what he sees each morning on the gallops. Maybe there was an element of not wanting to rustle feathers at Juddmonte, but the Prince is fairly loyal and I doubt he would have taken great umbrage at the suggestion Workforce wasn't as good as Harbinger. Highclere may not provide Freemason Lodge with as many horses as Juddmonte do, but I think Harry Herbert would have been just as open to insult given his fondness for the horse in question. What is said in interviews isn't necessarily worth putting complete stock in, but you have to admit it is interesting and there is just as much case for it being an honest, frank answer to a question, as being manipulated to favour one owner over the other. Anyway, people will always point to horses in the past being over-rated, or current horses being under-rated. The same goes on in the NH scene with Arkle and Kauto. There will always be an unconscious want to view what we have now, as better than what went on in years gone by, but that doesn't make it so. Racing has been blessed recently no doubt, but what I think people forget was that some of the great horses from the past, rose to the top in generations of great strength. I'm not going to be drawn on the NH, but certainly on the flat you can't look at many of the horses we have been able to enjoy in the last ten years and say they did the same thing. It doesn't remove credence from their achievements, but like Camelot for example, it does make it harder to really assess how they compare / compared. I completely concur with an article I was reading this morning about his St Leger bid http://www.racingpost.com/horses/home.s ... t7DaysNews Should he win at Doncaster, it will be a great achievement, but that doesn't make him a great horse, not yet, not until he has proven his ability against horses with proven ability. Had he raced in a much stronger division, and was on the verge of the same thing, then it would be different entirely, but through no fault of the horse himself he hasn't. If your opinion is that Harbinger was a good horse, I absolutely agree; if your opinion is that Harbinger would be in your top ten for the last decade, I have no issue with that, you have every right to your opinion, such as I have to mine; but if your opinion stretches on to say that he is a great horse, rather than just a good one, or worthy of 140 for his King George win, worthy to be considered next to horses such as Dancing Brave, I couldn't disagree more vehemently and I would absolutely challenge it. |
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| Author: | Frankel2012 [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
I just cant have Harbinger down as a great horse. He ran 1 great race in the King George and that is it. Sea Moon trounced everything in the Voltigeur last year and it just shows every horse on their day can run a race like that. It is about doing it time after time like the true greats have done and they are the ones we should be talking about in these discussions. He was never a 140 rated horse not in a million years and certainly not on a par with Dancing Brave or Dubai Millenium. It shows how much of a joke it is when he is rated higher than Montjeu who was only rated 137. Harbinger would never have got near him. It is much easier to put in performances like that against horses who were not great themselves. It shown absolutely nothing prior to that race to suggest it could do that which makes me believe it was a complete one off. I still dont believe it was a 140 rated performance either. Im sure horses rated below 140 could of beat that field by the same distance and to me its a false rating. |
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| Author: | anubisrich [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
I personally take no notice of individual race ratings. For historical purposes horses should be rated based on their career as a whole. Good top 10 db, I'd agree. Unfortunately the absolutely ludicrous assertions that went around when New Approach was racing from his crazy fans just soured that whole season for me. It was only when the Nav and Ravens Pass went and did a job on the Yanks that you could really appreciate the horse. I think his stallion record will justify him as one of the greats. |
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| Author: | Ubar02 [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
Frankel2012 wrote: I just cant have Harbinger down as a great horse. He ran 1 great race in the King George and that is it. Sea Moon trounced everything in the Voltigeur last year and it just shows every horse on their day can run a race like that. It is about doing it time after time like the true greats have done and they are the ones we should be talking about in these discussions. He was never a 140 rated horse not in a million years and certainly not on a par with Dancing Brave or Dubai Millenium. It shows how much of a joke it is when he is rated higher than Montjeu who was only rated 137. Harbinger would never have got near him. It is much easier to put in performances like that against horses who were not great themselves. It shown absolutely nothing prior to that race to suggest it could do that which makes me believe it was a complete one off. I still dont believe it was a 140 rated performance either. Im sure horses rated below 140 could of beat that field by the same distance and to me its a false rating. Maybe he is slightly overrated, but not to the point some say. I think he could have reached 135 or higher perhaps 137 had he run again. But equally I think Dubai millennium was underrated, his POW destroying sendawar was a superb performance and I would have had him nearer 142,143, which I think he could have achieved if he had been able to race on. I think in the montjeu match race it would have been a no contest. I personally have him ahead of STS, though the problem with STS was that he only did enough, a bit like big bucks, so you never knew how much he had left. The only race he was really pushed was the guineas, but that was because that wasn't his optimum distance and he improved through the year. |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
glad to see things have been running smoothy since i have been away any earthshattering racing news in last couple weeks????? |
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| Author: | Ubar02 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
pjrhodes1970 wrote: glad to see things have been running smoothy since i have been away any earthshattering racing news in last couple weeks????? What would we do without your calming influence Paul? Biggest news I can think of is reckless abandon going to darley. |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
cheers 4 update ubar i have had a few rows on here too im no angel
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| Author: | SuperCat [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Frankel goes straight to Champion Stakes |
So You Think wrote: Signature Please remove your signature, it is highly inappropriate! |
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