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 New Legends 
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
Finally managed to create them all, yay.
It requires a lot of tweaking to get them to run as expected and to follow a realistic career path. It is pointless maxing out every stat as whilst I want them to be exceptional I also want them to be eventually attainable, just extremely difficult. Basically at or just below the level that Frankel is created at in the game. One day I may have a look at some international horses but I am not enough of an expert to know their running styles or strengths and weaknesses.
Frankel has been used since SO6 as a barometer for how good your own horses are and after some testing I think Yeats will prove a tough nut to crack over 2m4f.

I am going to start producing my jumps lists tonight which has proved far more difficult than I thought.
They will be split into 5 categories:

2 mile hurdlers
3 mile hurdlers
2 mile chasers
3 mile chasers
Miscellaneous, which will include National horses, personal favorites and horses that don't quite fit into the other categories.

These lists will contain more inane rambling and be more subjective (I generally prefer the jumps to the flat) and will also have more people disagreeing with me.


Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:10 pm
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:38 am
Posts: 1
Post Re: New Legends
Pommard wrote:
Finally managed to find lightweight wheelchairs here and create them all, yay.
It requires a lot of tweaking to get them to run as expected and to follow a realistic career path. It is pointless maxing out every stat as whilst I want them to be exceptional I also want them to be eventually attainable, just extremely difficult. Basically at or just below the level that Frankel is created at in the game. One day I may have a look at some international horses but I am not enough of an expert to know their running styles or strengths and weaknesses.
Frankel has been used since SO6 as a barometer for how good your own horses are and after some testing I think Yeats will prove a tough nut to crack over 2m4f.

I am going to start producing my jumps lists tonight which has proved far more difficult than I thought.
They will be split into 5 categories:

2 mile hurdlers
3 mile hurdlers
2 mile chasers
3 mile chasers
Miscellaneous, which will include National horses, personal favorites and horses that don't quite fit into the other categories.

These lists will contain more inane rambling and be more subjective (I generally prefer the jumps to the flat) and will also have more people disagreeing with me.


I'm actually looking forward to hearing your subjective thoughts. Sure, people may disagree, but it'll also spur more discussions which is great, no?


Last edited by Slowik on Fri Dec 08, 2023 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:36 pm
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Handicapper

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 489
Post Re: New Legends
Pommard wrote:
Finally managed to create them all, yay.
It requires a lot of tweaking to get them to run as expected and to follow a realistic career path. It is pointless maxing out every stat as whilst I want them to be exceptional I also want them to be eventually attainable, just extremely difficult. Basically at or just below the level that Frankel is created at in the game. One day I may have a look at some international horses but I am not enough of an expert to know their running styles or strengths and weaknesses.
Frankel has been used since SO6 as a barometer for how good your own horses are and after some testing I think Yeats will prove a tough nut to crack over 2m4f.

I am going to start producing my jumps lists tonight which has proved far more difficult than I thought.
They will be split into 5 categories:

2 mile hurdlers
3 mile hurdlers
2 mile chasers
3 mile chasers
Miscellaneous, which will include National horses, personal favorites and horses that don't quite fit into the other categories.

These lists will contain more inane rambling and be more subjective (I generally prefer the jumps to the flat) and will also have more people disagreeing with me.



A horse I always had a soft spot for was Rooster Booster. The day it won the Champion Hurdle was one of my all time favourite Cheltenham moments


Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:48 pm
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Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 8:48 pm
Posts: 15142
Location: Republic of Ireland
Post Re: New Legends
2 mile hurdlers
Insurance, National Spirit, Hatton's Grace, Sir Ken, Persian War, See You Then,
Sea Pigeon, Istabraq, Hurricane Fly, Hardy Eustace, Buveur d'Air.

2 mile chasers
Badsworth Boy, Fortria, Drinny's Double, Skymas, Hilly Way, Pearlyman, Barnbrook Again,
Viking Flagship, Moscow Flyer, Master Minded, Sprinter Sacre, Altior.

3 mile hurdlers
Warwick, Galmoy, Big Bucks, Inglis Drever, Baracouda.

3 mile chasers
Golden Miller, Arkle, L'Escargot, Desert Orchid, Best Mate Kauto Star, Denman,

Misc
Red Rum, Dawn Run, Monksfield, Night Nurse.

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Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:53 pm
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
Here we go with 2 mile hurdlers, pretty much the same rules as before, from 1968 on wards. Even then it was tough and some good ones were left out.

Night Nurse - In my opinion the greatest of them all, a tough front runner who in his 2 Champion Hurdles beat 4 other horses who won 7 Champion Hurdles between them plus several other top class horses. Subsequently became a very high class chaser finishing second in a good quality Gold Cup and falling at the last when looking likely to win a King George.
Monksfield - Only little and still had all his wedding tackle but I doubt if a tougher horse has ever looked through a bridle and had memorable battles with Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon.
Sea Pigeon - Considered good enough to run in the Derby (finished 7th) he won 2 Chester Cups and an Ebor under top weight as well as 2 Champion Hurdles. Very speedy and probably benefitted from the re-configuration of the course in 1980 to finally win his Champion Hurdle at the age of ten.
Istabraq - Very speedy and utterly dominant over 2 miles (occasionally vulnerable over 2m4f) and probably denied a historuc 4th Champion Hurdle by foot and mouth.
Hurricane Fly - Another speedy hurdler who was unbeatable in his native Ireland and still managed to win 2 Champion Hurdles despite never running to within 7lbs of his best at Cheltenham such was his superiority.
Bula - Extravagant hold up horse with a great turn of foot who after winning 2 Champion Hurdles became a top class chaser. Possibly unlucky not to win a Gold Cup as he was outstayed in 3rd on ground that would probably be considered waterlogged today.
Persian War - Tremendously tough horse who was hard campaigned and was only denied a 4th Champion Hurdle by the brilliant Bula.
See You Then - Very fragile triple Champion who appeared about as often as Haleys comet but his trademark was how strongly he travelled in his races.
Annie Power - Classy, tough and consistent mare who I believe should have won more than one Champion Hurdle but racing politics (more about this bugbear of mine later) meant she only ever ran in it once.
Birds Nest - Almost certainly the best horse never to win the Champion Hurdle. On several occasions produced a level of form capable of winning most Champion Hurdles but was active during a stellar period. Was quirky and sometimes the steering failed spectacularly.

Honorable mentions go to Comedy Of Errors, Hardy Eustace, Buveir D'air and Faugheen all high class.


Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:49 pm
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Post Re: New Legends
Flyingbolt :D

Having read a lot about this horse.

Tom Dreaper who also trained Arkle said Flyingbolt was the best horse he ever trained.

Only a few pounds less than Arkle and both never raced each other due to the fact they wore trained by the same trainer.

As to be considered in your list.


Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:52 am
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
Here we go with 3 mile hurdlers, this was not quite so tough. A slightly strange division as for many years (almost until Baracouda in 2002) it was not held in the same esteem as the other championships but rather a stepping stone for chasers.

Baracouda - Great French hurdler who started a golden era for staying hurdlers. A little bit of an oddball who was ridden with exaggerated hold up tactics and was not over keen on the whip.
Big Bucks - 4 time stayers winner who set a modern day record of 18 consecutive wins. raced very lazily but always found more when asked.
Inglis Drever - Was close to Champion Hurdle class but another who tended to race lazily. Overcame a very serious injury to become the only horse to regain the stayers crown. Often finished strongly having looked in trouble.
Iris's Gift - Looked a staying star after great battles with Baracouda but went chasing and his career petered out.
Thistlecrack - A late developer who was sensational in his only full season in the stayers division. Destroyed the opposition in 2016 and subsequently went chasing and although high class has not quite reached the same dizzying heights.
Solwhit - Underrated horse who was second only to Hurricane Fly in the 2 mile division in his youth. Returned from injury to win a good quality renewal of the Stayers before meeting an untimely end.
Nomadic Way - A useful flat stayer who twice finished second in the Champion Hurdle and won an Irish Champion. Finally got his Cheltenham win in the Stayers and then embarked on a successful stud career having kept his wedding tackle.
Galmoy - Very tough late developer who was the first multiple winner of the modern age who still finished 5th in the race as a 12 year old.
Brown Lad - Another late developer who won the race on his only appearance as a 9 year old. Gained far more fame through his later exploits as a chaser being the only horse to win three Irish Grand Nationals and also finishing second in two Gold Cups.
Derring Rose - Possibly the most talented of the whole bunch but a renowned headbanger who was several sandwiches short of a picnic. His Stayers win had to be seen to be believed when he took 30 lengths out of the field on the run-in! Was known to pull himself up on numerous occasions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLYSXV7en9g

One who was almost certainly good enough to be on this list was Quevega (could probably have beaten quite a few of them) but due to racing politics (GRRRR) she didn't get the chance to prove it on the biggest stage.


Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:13 pm
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
Here we go with 2 mile chasers, lots of high class horses to choose from.

Sprinter Sacre – Probably the best steeplechaser I have ever seen. Looked unbeatable during his first incarnation destroying the opposition and returned from a serious heart issue to show a high level of form and regain his throne.
Moscow Flyer – A high class hurdler who developed into a brilliant chaser despite the occasional jumping lapse. Reigned during a stellar period and won what was probably the greatest 2 mile chase ever run (2004 Tingle Creek).
Badsworth Boy – A good hurdler who became the only triple winner of the Champion Chase and still holds the record for biggest winning margin. Apparently a volatile character who jumped incredibly fast and low which sometimes led to disaster.
Master Minded – A French bred who gave an astonishing display to win the Champion Chase as a 5 year old (thrashing the previous years winner). Never quite matched that performance but maintained a high level for a few years after.
One Man – A popular bold jumping grey who spent the majority of his career racing over further (won 2 King Georges) but dropped to the minimum trip to win a Champion Chase after twice failing to stay in the Gold Cup. Unfortunately in the current climate he would probably end up running in the Mickey Mouse (sorry Ryanair) stakes.
Pearlyman – Probably the worst of these over hurdles and a very fragile horse who endured long absences but still managed to win two Champion Chases with his hold up style and good turn of foot.
Barnbrook Again – Good enough to finish third in a Champion Hurdle and developed into a high class chaser despite suffering heart issues.
Remittance Man – Only small and very nervous (famously had a sheep live in the stable with him) but a very quick jumper whose career was unfortunately cut short by injury.
Azertyuiop – Useful French bred hurdler who improved for a switch to fences and had memorable battles with Moscow Flyer and Well Chief. Another whose career was unfortunately cut short by injury.
Altior – The current champion and totally dominant. Always finishes his races incredibly strongly and could almost certainly win the Champion Hurdle as well at the moment. Unbeaten over obstacles, currently 17 and counting. I almost left him off the list for now as I am sure that he actually wants further and could improve! I am desperate to see him tried over 3 miles.

Honorable mentions go to dual champions Viking Flagship, Skymas and Hilly Way.


Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:36 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:30 pm
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Post Re: New Legends
2 milers....Rathgorman,Little Bay......3 milers Wayward Lad,Bregawn,Pendil,...my additions to a fantastic list.


Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:08 pm
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
Here we go with 3 mile chasers, this was the most difficult of all with lots of high class horses to choose from. I have decided to restrict this section to horses who actually won the Cheltenham Gold Cup and some other top 3 milers will appear in the miscellaneous section, plus a couple omitted from this. I have also found it far more difficult to compare the generations because the nature of the Gold Cup test has changed dramatically over the years. As a general rule the Gold Cups of the 70’s, 80’s and even into the 90’s were run at a faster pace on softer ground and over stiffer fences putting more emphasis on jumping and stamina. The modern Gold Cup, with a couple of exceptions like 2015 & 2018, is much more a test of speed.

Desert Orchid – Incredibly brave bold jumping front runner. Was top class from 2 miles all the way up to 3 miles 5 furlongs often carrying huge weights in handicaps. Hated going left handed and Cheltenham (always way below form there) but finally won the Gold Cup in a famous race in atrocious conditions in 1989. I was lucky enough to be there .
Burrough Hill Lad – A proper staying chaser who won a good renewal of the Gold Cup that was run at a ferocious gallop and followed up with a fantastic weight carrying performance in the Hennessy. Unfortunately suffered injury problems and never ran in the Gold Cup again. Almost a case of might have been and I don’t think we ever saw the best of him.
Dawn Run – A fabulously tough front running mare who holds to unique records. She was the only horse ever to complete the English, Irish and French Champion Hurdle treble and is the only racehorse ever to complete the Champion Hurdle - Gold Cup double. Her Champion Hurdle was a rather weak affair but the Gold Cup was a memorable race run like above at a searing gallop (course record at the time) and I was lucky enough to be there as well . Tragically lost her life soon after in France. Was campaigned aggressively and the unfortunate truth is that if she was around now and owned and trained by certain people she’d probably spend her entire career being wasted in uncompetitive mares races!!!
Captain Christy – Close to top class as a 2 mile hurdler he looked to have the world at his feet when winning the Gold Cup as a novice. Put in amazing performances to win 2 King Georges thrashing the likes of Pendil and Bula but unfortunately another for whom injury struck as nothing that won the Gold Cup in subsequent years was remotely as good as him.
Best Mate – Very consistent and an immaculate, accurate jumper who achieved the notable distinction of winning three consecutive Gold Cups. Never finished outside the first two until meeting a tragic demise on the racecourse.
Silver Buck – Much underrated, in my opinion, chaser who was part of Michael Dickinson’s famous 5. Dual King George winner who finally dispelled stamina (and ground) issues when winning a soft ground Gold Cup at the age of 10.
Denman – Powerful galloper who ran himself as well as the opposition into the ground with a famous Gold Cup win in 2008. Subsequently suffered heart problems but returned to show a high level of form and finished second in the next three Gold Cups. Disliked going right handed.
Kauto Star – Wonderfully consistent and versatile chaser who showed high class form from 2 miles up to 3 miles 2 furlongs. Had great longevity (especially for a French bred) and is the only horse to have regained the Gold Cup. I must admit though to being a dissenter regarding his official and timeform ratings. I don’t believe he ever produced the kind of individual performance attributed to him and it does a dis-service to other great horses.
Imperial Commander – Had a very patchy record due to hating going right handed and was a real Cheltenham specialist. Underrated because his best, when beating Denman and Kauto Star, was very good indeed.
The Fellow – High class French chaser who was a regular visitor. Winner of 2 King Georges and finally won the Gold Cup at the fourth attempt after two heartbreaking and slightly unlucky short head defeats.

Honorable mentions go to the following all of whom won as relative youngsters looking high class but injury prevented them from following up, Little Owl, Imperial Call, Kicking King and Master Oats who was brilliant on his day but too ground dependent. A couple of other winners are appearing in the miscellaneous list.


Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:28 pm
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:59 pm
Posts: 674
Post Re: New Legends
No Wayward Lad better than half of them. Got to go in the other.


Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 pm
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Group 2 winner

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
ghosty wrote:
No Wayward Lad better than half of them. Got to go in the other.


Patience John Patience :)


Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:26 pm
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Posts: 779
Post Re: New Legends
Here we go with the final section, the miscellaneous. This includes personal favorites and horses that for one reason or another didn’t quite fit into the other categories despite obviously being very high class.

Red Rum – No list could be complete without this extraordinary horse that kick started my love affair with racing as a small child. Started his racing life as a 2 year old over 5 furlongs and had a chronic lameness problem that was managed by paddling in sea water. Almost single handedly saved the Grand National and his record of 3 wins and 2 seconds (when it was a severe test) will never be matched.
L’Escargot – A tremendously tough and high class chaser who had a long and varied career. Most famous for his great Grand National battles with Red Rum, finished 2nd and 3rd before finally winning as a 12 year old and for also winning two Gold Cups (deserved to make that list). Also earlier in his career was a high class hurdler and the American champion steeplechaser.
The Dikler – Probably not the classiest horse to win the Cheltenham Gold Cup, where he famously mugged Pendil close home, but incredibly tough and ran in the race and completed the course for seven consecutive years also finishing 2nd once and 3rd twice. Also won a King George and twice ran in the Grand National under big weights finishing 5th and 6th (didn’t quite stay).
Pendil – The best British trained chaser of the 1970’s who won the King George twice and twice started as an odds on favorite for the Cheltenham Gold Cup! If there was “in running” betting when he was beaten by The Dikler there would have been a lot of people with burnt fingers. His jockey Richard Pitman had a successful career in the saddle, forged a very successful TV career, had a very successful (ex) wife Jenny and a successful son Mark but despite that he will be forever remembered for the two races he lost in the space of a few weeks in 1973.
Wayward Lad – High class chaser over 2 ½ and 3 miles who won three King George chases in the 80’s. Never managed to win at Cheltenham where the hill found him out and ran in five consecutive Gold Cups. Three times he led over the last in that race and he would surely be capable of winning some of the slowly run recent renewals. Won on firm and heavy ground but horses were hardier then as a rule.
Tied Cottage – Thrilling to watch staying Irish chaser who is one of my all time favorites. Inveterate front runner who quite often would go a fence clear in his races. Absolutely adored Cheltenham and heavy ground and was desperately unlucky not to win the Gold Cup. Disqualified from first once due to contaminated feed, second once, fell at the last when disputing the lead once and also unseated once going up the hill for the second time whilst still a fence clear!
Florida Pearl – High class Irish chaser who won the Hennessy Gold Cup a record 4 times and won a King George. Another on this list who found the hill at the end of 3 ¼ miles too much in the Gold Cup but I always felt that if they had run him in the Champion Chase in his prime he could of won it. It did not have exceptional winners in the years he was trying to win the Gold Cup.
Golden Cygnet – A slightly more unusual choice here in that this is a horse whose whole jumping career lasted only one season and five months. Timeforms highest ever rated novice hurdler who destroyed the field in the Supreme Novices at Cheltenham (15 lengths easily) and looked on the verge of beating Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon in the Scottish Champion Hurdle when tragically taking what later turned out to be a fatal fall at the last. The biggest case of what might have been on these lists.
Morley Street – A highly versatile horse who won a Champion Hurdle (despite never being at his best at Cheltenham), two Breeders Cup Chases (was twice voted American Champion Steeplechaser) and was a very useful flat stayer. But where he really came alive was at Aintree over 2 ½ miles where he was imperious and unbeaten in five consecutive visits.
Crisp – Fantastic jumping ex Australian chaser forever immortalized by a heroic defeat. Very high class in his own right and having won all there was to win in his homeland he came to Britain and promptly won the Champion Chase by 15 lengths. He also finished 5th in a Gold Cup over a trip that was too far but it was his performance in the 1973 Grand National that has earned him his place in racing folklore. Under top weight he gave the best display of front running and jumping ever seen at Aintree and helped to beat the track record by 20 seconds only to be denied in heartbreaking fashion. It is the first race I vividly recall watching as a young boy and still in my mind the greatest horse race ever run. See for yourself :): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCjhsE6kox4

That’s the end of my rambling, now to while away my spare time trying to create them all.


Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:00 pm
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Group 1 winner

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 am
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Post Re: New Legends
As Crisp's jockey said in hindsight - 'giving him a crack with the whip cost him the race'


Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:34 am
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:17 pm
Posts: 150
Post Re: New Legends
Did you ever make, or think of making your legends dB file available to others? It would be great if you could make it available to download.


Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:49 pm
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