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 Post Your Spreadsheets 
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
Although I doubt we'll reach anything definitive, or even a general consensus, I think it's useful to consider much weight we individually give each stat. The more contributors we get, the more a 'hive mind' approach might show itself.

I split stats into different tiers:

Tier 1 - Potential (I still believe potential to be worthy of the top spot on its own).
Tier 2 - Speed, Stamina, Acceleration, Cruising Burst, Extra Speed Rating (I believe an aggregation of these stats provides a good overview of a horse and largely removes distance bias).
Tier 3 - Start, Battling, Confidence, Finish, Consistency (These are 'cherry on top' for me - if a horse that scores highly in Tiers 1 and 2 also does well in this category it adds that extra little something).
Tier 4 - Constitution, Enthusiasm (of marginal importance to me).

Any stats not mentioned are the ones I ignore.

I haven't actually done any weighted scoring so I'll need to do a bit of work on that (and see what impact various weightings have on my rankings) but it'll be an interesting exercise.


Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:02 am
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
Yes, the uncertainty is probably a useful thing (as frustrating as it is for someone who likes certainty!).

I've been playing around with stats and weightings but I can't come up with a formula i'm happy with yet.

Something I'm changing my mind on is the Stamina rating as I think I was wrong to aggregate it with Speed and Acceleration. I don't have enough longer distance horses to be sure but I think a 'good' longer distance horse should also be scoring highly on Speed and Acceleration? If that's the case, the addition of a high Stamina rating will actually accentuate distance bias. For instance my best IC horse has Speed 100, Stamina 30, Acceleration 90 = 220 ... I have a mundane PE horse that has Speed 75, Stamina 85, Acceleration 65 = 225. I think that proves I need to adjust my weightings and maybe remove Stamina entirely.

I know Sirius values the Finish rating highly but, considering our best horses often win with daylight between them and the runner-up, I'm not sure it is 'activated' in every race in the same way as Potential, Speed, Acceleration, Cruising, Extra Speed are.

What each horse achieves in their career isn't such a great indicator either I don't think. I had a very good 10f horse that won relatively little in the shape of G1s due to being the same generation as two monster gamebreds, whereas I've had sprinters and milers I'd consider less talented who have scooped up multiple G1s due to their distances being less competitive in their generations.

I don't use the CK but I probably need to start doing so (although it sound buggy right now so hopefully it'll be fixed). Once I have enough of a pool available to run trials I can perhaps start to draw more conclusions about which stats are commonly high among those who do well in trials. It'd be interesting to hear what people who have done much more trialling and testing have worked out on that score.


Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
Chances are stats interact with each other. Confidence each race probably has a dice roll. If the horse rolls low, then other stats may be less likely to have much effect while if it rolls high, then they might have more of an effect.

Example: A horse has 90 confidence. Before the race, the computer rolls a number between 0 and 90. If the number rolls a 0, stats like extra speed rating, battle qualities, etc will do next to nothing. If the number rolls a 90, extra speed, etc may get an extra bonus making the horse excel in the race. If the computer rolls a 45, the horse just runs normally and has a 50-50 chance of battling qualities, etc mattering.

I'm sure other stats also interact such as whether or not a horse likes to be front ridden. A front horse who gets challenged but has low confidence and high battling qualities might very well give up while a front horse with gets challenged but has high confidence and low battling qualities might pick up the pace a bit but still fail at the wire.

There's also horse personality. Some horses like to lead and sulk when taken on. Others are just hot tempered. Some just plod along. Then there's starting. If a horse fumbles at the start, that can possibly drop their confidence or force them to use more stamina to catch up.

Some horses also have the colored * in the paddock before races which are also very likely to effect them. Since those are largely random, they're hard to control for. I've had calm horses end up in the paddock with the boiling over comment and have had hot tempted horses have the parading well comment.

There's also the horses that just refuse to start at all. Someone posted a picture a while ago of a horse in their game that was all or nothing. The horse either won the race or refused to run at all. Similarly, how would you account for horses that fall on a regular basis in a jumps game but wins big when they do finish?

There's hidden values in the game (personality being among them) so even if we did figure out a good formula, those hidden factors would potentially skew things. A horse that looks great can be screwed over by those hidden factors.

I'm not so sure we should be focusing so much on stats. They're a nice indicator, but they're not the end all be all answer. Those hidden stats can likely make what looks to be a great horse unable to win a seller while what you'd think would be a claimer horse could take the Dubai World Cup with 10 length. I never thought Striking Louhossoa could take all 6 US triple tiara races. I never thought Mr Classic or Hotfoot Jake would take the Kentucky Derby or Preakness Stakes. I though Triple Acquisitive would be my top horse and he wasn't what I thought he was.

Then there's also hidden breeding stats that could make a poor stallion a great stud or a great stallion a terrible stud. I'm sure there's also a fertility stat we're unaware of which relates to why some pairs may take 6 months to breed ... or never breed at all. Certainly makes that realistic. I'm sure many were disappointed to find Cigar was sterile.

Only Mark knows how many hidden stats there are, but I'm sure there's far more than what we're thinking about. And some of those stats possibly have more weight than the ones we can see.

If you still want to figure out what stats to value the most, there is something that might give you an idea. I caught that when a legendary horse retired, I could view their stats by clicking on them in the Legends screen. Pick a legendary horse who performed really well and look at their stats. Then look at a legendary horse who performed poorly and compare them. Compare them to your own horses that ran well and that ran poorly. There's likely similarities there that would reveal what stats are worthwhile to keep an eye on.

Just 4 legendaries who left one of my games:
Image
Image
Image
Image
(The stats don't appear over the races before someone gets confused. I copy and pasted them so they'd be in one image.)
(Schedule was also a custom one I made that I'm not overly happy with so I'm redoing it.)

Ignoring constitution which tends to be high for legendaries anyway, this reveals something. Just looking at Bullet Train and Secretariat, battling qualities pops out along with finish application, cruising burst, and distance adaptability.

Extra speed rating didn't do much for Bullet Train nor Dayjur or Lochsong. So perhaps extra speed rating shouldn't be valued so highly. Meanwhile, Dayjur also has some quirks unlike the other three which could have potentially ruined his win chances. Enthusiam doesn't seem to do much and confidence doesn't exist for any of them so confidence may not actually have much value. Deterioration potential is hit or miss. Only one that seemed to flop hard at the end was Bullet Train. The rest went out on a win although Lochsong went out on a handicap win rather than a graded stakes. Deterioration is likely so high just to ensure they're retired at a realistic age. Believe I had that box checked for this game but I don't recall. The bar may not be so high if the box is not checked.

Interestingly, jump potential is identical between all 4 as is training adaption so both of those can be tossed out as making a difference.

Looking at things like stamina, etc, I'd assume Secretariat would barely be able to do 1m2f let alone 1m4f yet he won the Chicago Championship Cup (a made up race) at 1m4f in two consecutive years. He could also drop down to a mile and still win. So I doubt stamina, etc really mean much compared to the other stats, especially distance adaptability.

Going by legendaries, seems finish application and cruising burst are likely more important values. Distance adaptability is only if you like to run your horses at a variety of distances. I value it myself because of the US triple crown, but I ignore it otherwise. That's not to say there's some hidden stat for legendary horses to make winning easier for them, though.


Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
That was really interesting - thanks for adding your thoughts at length :) I didn't know we could view stats for retired legends but i'm going to go look at my games after I type this, hehe.

I know it's a really small sample size but battling qualities and cruising burst jumped out for me too when I was initially looking at their stats. Just a pity that every horse in my transfer pool has 10 for battling qualities! I'm still not convinced about finish application but i'd obviously prefer it to be 100 where possible.

I agree there are complexities far beyond simply adding together a few stats and you make great points about how things like running style, starting ability and temperament etc can skew performance on any given day. All things being equal though, there must be certain stats that are beneficial to 'breed into' offspring. As I don't have any short term option to improve battling qualities, I'll pay close attention to cruising burst among my high potential horses and try to improve that across my lines.


Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:03 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
wow never seen max distance adaptability before

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Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:30 am
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
atiggerx33 wrote:
I have now added a Breeding Sector to my file (it does not replace the original), the new link will be on the first page under Horse Data 2.0!

So now, on both your "Horse" page and "Lifetime Scores" page you also must include the name of the Sire and Dam of the Individual (or if a gamebred leave them blank). Once you've filled these two columns with names, Let's say one of my Sires is named Dan The Man, you'd go over to the "Sire Scores" page and simply type "Dan The Man" (without quotes) into the name field, it will automatically fill in EVERYTHING else for you. The formulas took a lot of finagling on my part, they work 100%, however under NO circumstances should you EVER try to edit the data in a column other than the "Name" column, unless you're really good with formulas, you may cause irreparable damage. If you dislike a column (other than the foal count column) simply get rid of it. I warn you though, once removed by "deleting" a column cannot be brought back.

Please note: If you leave a "Name" cell blank in the chart, that row will look quite ugly (a lot of errors mentioning you're dividing by 0, since everything is divided by the horse's foal count) until you fill it in. Also, I am like 90% sure the entries are case sensitive so use capitals and whatnot.

Image

Here is what the "Horse" page's two new columns look like, simple enough.


Image

This is a picture of my "Dam Scores" sheet. All the data is autofilled except for the name, so after filling out your "Horse" page and "Lifetime Scores" page with the sires and dams, simply type in some Dam names on the "Dam Scores" page and Sire names on the "Sire Scores" page and it'll automatically fill in every bit of the other information for you. If you do not use the "Lifetime Scores" or "CDs" simply delete the "AvScore" column, and the "AvCD" column.

If you enter in a horse's sire and dam as soon as it is born, but do not enter in the other info (like potential and whatnot) until they are 4, you will get a messed up sire and dam score. (It is programmed to divide by the number of foals, so it'll divide by lets say "5" instead of "4", pretty much acting like your horse just gave birth to the worst foal in the history of foals, a foal with all 0 stats.


This is a wonderful addition that I'm going to immediately start using! Thanks so much for sharing :)


Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:24 am
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
atiggerx33 wrote:
Pebbles Girl wrote:
This is a wonderful addition that I'm going to immediately start using! Thanks so much for sharing :)


No problem Pebbles! I've been enjoying playing with Excel, I never even realized it could do 1/2 the things I've asked it to figure out for me. It's been a bit of a b*tch figuring it all out, a lot of formulas I tried to get what I wanted came back with errors, for a while I thought I was asking the impossible. I actually manually entered a lot of data on a formula page to begin with, which was a real pain, very time consuming and just a miserable experience, I also only recorded the filly/colt percentages, number of foals, and the AvScore. Then I decided I wanted it not only to give me a lot more info (which I did not want to manually enter each time) but also decided there had to be a better way of getting it.

What really encouraged me though, was that Sirius said he would like to see what I did for progeny. I knew I was sorely lacking there, but having someone else asking for it really encouraged me to get it done. I'm still so early in my breeding that it wasn't 100% necessary yet, but I knew from looking at what I could see of Sirius's charts that he was much further in, and not having excel himself would greatly appreciate it.

So I guess a shout out to Sirius, for accidentally giving me the encouragement I needed. I wanted to kill excel and punch my computer several times (kept getting formula errors), and if you take a peek at the formula for the AvCD score you'll see why! It's like 5 solid lines of formula that it's coding for that one score (I really thought knowing the average progeny distance was important to breeding).

For those who haven't downloaded the Dosage Chart but are curious what the brightly colorful column means just know its a tweaked version of a Thoroughbred Center of Distribution (google it, it's a pretty cool concept), but simply put the numbers range from -2.5 to +2.5. A score of "2.5" would signify that a horse was best at 5-6.75 furlongs, while a "-2.5" would (in my tweaking) signify a horse was best at around 15-16.75 furlongs, and a "0" would signify that a horse liked 10-11.75 furlongs... the closer to "0" the better they'd be suited (IMO) to the American Triple Crown. Not 100% sure, but I think that'd probably be what you wanted for the UK TC too, just with a really high Distance Adaptability bar to go with it.

Just a note, I made the AvCD score brightly colored because I did not want to signify one distance as bad, and another as good. With the other stats, obviously lower is bad and higher is good thus the red to green coding (or in the case of Deterioration Potential I coded it to be green to red since you want that score to be low). I didn't want to imply a bias that a Classic runner was somehow better or worse than a sprinter, a good horse is a good horse whether they have the endurance of a quarter horse or an arabian or anywhere in between. I considered not color coding it at all, but then thought it would be easier to find similar-distance-producing sires/dams if the color coding was there. In hindsight I should have made stamina similar, I'm just so used to seeing it red-green on mine that it was habitual to look at it that way...


I'm a complete Excel dummy so you have my total admiration for the coding. The colour coding variations for CD and Deterioration make complete sense.

It was actually me who had asked for details of how you deal with progeny so I'm really excited about this addition. Especially considering it goes far beyond what I imagined might be available.

This will mean an instant end to the piles of paper I was accumulating manually recording stats etc. Now, if only Mark could come up with an option for exporting stats to Excel our workload would virtually disappear, haha.


Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
How does the spreadsheet calculate the Lifetime Score? There's no formula entered on the spreadsheet so it doesn't do any calculations when i put all the info in?


Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
Spreadsheets look great and I am going to start a new game so I can use properly!! Thanks for uploading, do you know how to change the colours slightly as the font is really dark in the coloured cells on my machine and I cant read it properly.


Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:16 am
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
Hello again :)

I've just started adding data to my updated spreadsheet but I've noticed it's no longer automatically updating my sire and dam information.

It's almost certainly a case of me messing up something during my ham-fisted attempts at moving my data to the new version but I don't know where to start in fixing it. Would you mind taking a look at my spreadsheet to see whether it is fixable? Or whether it is easier for you to correctly transfer my data to a new spreadsheet, lol.

On the main horses tab i've added lines 126 to 133 today, which is when I noticed the sire/dam info wasn't carrying over.

One thing I did have to do when moving my data across was delete the 'win%' column as that wasn't in my original spreadsheet and the extra column was causing data to paste into the wrong columns. Not sure if I've messed it all up as a result of that action.

Totally understand if it's too much time/hassle to try to fix things for me so please don't feel obligated.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5wp9jyx1a6pvgwi/Horse%20Data%203.2%20bwf.xlsx?dl=0


Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:27 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
atiggerx33 wrote:
What information isn't carrying over? The Sires/Dams Pages look full of data to me. Are you saying it's not calculating properly? Or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

Edit: Nvm, I found the problem. It was not your fault, I should have been more clear, and I wasn't... I wasn't thinking, entirely my fault! When you transfer over pages that autofill a bunch of data for you, only copy and paste the data you had to enter, not all the data. For example on the Sires and Dams page, you should have just copied over their names, and let it autofill out their info again, when you copied and pasted everything it deleted the formulas for those columns. Again, it's not your fault, I should have been more clear on that. I had to paste everything back into a new file... I also changed your Fs and Ms (Female and Male) to "Female and "Male" that way it would actually count your male and female foal percentages. I think now that it counts the percentages you'll notice some interesting trends in some of your horses, like Marmato who after 6 foals has only thrown 1 male.

So you didn't do anything wrong by deleting the Win% column, it's designed that you can delete most columns. If you don't intend on using "Lifetime Scores" you can delete that entire page if you want, same goes for the "Scores" column on the Sire/Dam/Prospective Foal pages (since that column takes its info from the Lifetime Scores page).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hca45iwh4z78t ... .xlsx?dl=0


Nah, you probably just underestimated how much of an Excel dummy I was ;)

You're a star - thanks so much for fixing things!

For some reason, the sire scores tab has lost its colour coding now (but the dam scores tab is fine). If it's easy enough to talk me though how to fix that i'll do it at my end but if not don't worry.


Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:39 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
Fixed it. Once I deleted that bottom row the others all got their colour coding back :)


Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:21 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
I just want to say a big thank you to atiggerx33 for these great spreadsheets. It took me a while to register my horses, but it already gave me a better idea of their sterngths and weaknesses. I am looking forward to use these to enhance my breeding.


Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:14 pm
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
I know this is an old thread, but does anyone still have a blank copy of these spreadsheets? I've tried the links, and I don't think they are working any more. Thanks in advance.


Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:16 am
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Post Re: Post Your Spreadsheets
gsamons wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but does anyone still have a blank copy of these spreadsheets? I've tried the links, and I don't think they are working any more. Thanks in advance.


I have. But I am not very good at uploading :D .

But if you PM me your email I can send it to you.

Daniel


Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm
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