Hi

I usually just run two main games, one flat game and one jumps game. I always thought my breeding was more successfull in a flat game than in a jumps game so decided to do a little test.

I started a new flat game and imported one stallion and 5 mares and sent them to the breeding barn. In year 2, I imported the same 6 horses and sent them to the barn. I bred these horses over a 5 year period, producing 45 foals.

In the 5 year period, I bred 21 horses that I felt were good enough to send for tialling in the CK.

Next, I started a new jumps game and imported the same 12 horses and bred them for 5 years again, producing 45 foals. This time I only bred 8 horses that I felt were good enough to be sent for trialling in the CK.


I know it can be subjective about whether a horse is good enough for trialling. The main criteria I used was the green potential bar. Did both the light green and dark green bars reach full potential. All the horses that were imported had full potential bars si I was expecting them to breed similiar foals.

I used customised schedules for both games, they were short seasons where each horse was given 4 rides each season and bred until they were 6 years old. After 6 years most of the horses light green potential bar started to drop back down again.


Is it just my games that do this, or do others notice the same thing happening?

Maybe the criteria for a successfull jumper is different from a successfull flat horse.

I agree that you need a full potential bar but I also think you need very good speed bars. Same for your jumps horses 'I think' you need a full jump speed bar as well.

Its not so much the bars that I am commenting on, but the higher percentage of horses that reach full potential in a flat game compared to a jumps game.

It was 21 horses in the flat game compared to 8 horses in the jumps game. I have found this trend to be true in all the games I have played.

The other green bars were all pretty good no matter whether it was a flat game or a jumps game.

Do you play the flat more?
Interesting though!
I started a jumps game but my flat breeding has reached a new level so it's on the back burner for now - especially with the league not far off.

I normally play the jums game the most, but I started a new flat game and imported my best 2m jumpers into it and achieved much better results breeding my jumpers in a flat game than in a jumps game.

I would be inclined to agree with this assessment, though I am not sure a like for like comparison is sensible, good flat does not equal good jump so if your selecting your horses based on one set of criteria you maybe missing jumper who do not fully develop until they are say 6yo+ at three they may look bad compared to the faster developing 3yo flat. Though I will admit most of my best 2m jumpers are from flat games, my longer distance horses are all produced in jump breeding.

I had uploaded my league horses for the original start date of the league, so decided to try an experiment with breeding.

I started a new flat game and gradually over several seasons imported my league jump team into the flat game and used them as breeding stock.

I raced the offspring of these horses as 2 and 3yo in the flat game, with roughly 30% of the horses reaching full potential for their age. This is about 85% potential for my lines of 3yo jumpers.

At age 3, I exported the horses to a ttf file and then imported them as 4yo into a jumps game. I was still breeding the same league horses in my jumps game and found that I had imported roughly 3 times more horses with good potential than I had bred in the jumps game with similiar numbers of mares in the breeding barn in both versions of the game.

I raced both the imported horses and the jumps bred horses until they were 6yo where they reached 100% potential. I did not find any significant difference in how both sets of horses performed in races, but because of there being more flat bred jumpers, they had a better statistical chance of wiining a race. On average I had 5 flat bred jumpers versus 2 jump bred jumpers in every race.


Just to change the subject for a moment, I played my main jumps game about 3 times as may seasons as I played my main flat game, but when I came to trial races for the league I had about 500 flat horses and about 300 jumps horses exported to the CK. These were horses that had reached full potential in their various games. Things being equal, there should have been more jumps than flat horses in the CK

In my opinion, if you are using good breeding stock and breeding more horses that reach full potential, there is a better chance of finding that one horse that will be a success in the league. So in conclusion. I think I will breed my jumpers in a flat game and export them to a jumps game, giving me roughly 3 times more full potential horses to export to the CK for trialling.


Just a minor point, this only worked for horses that ran from 2m to 3m in a jumps game, the longer distance horses did not breed true in a flat game.

Interesting post!

Cannot say I have applied the same level of science, but remain in agreement horses in a jumps only game develop less frequently than a combined game, i tend to think this is to do with no 2yo race development. I have recently restarted all my games, deleting the old post this league team. My jump game will be played on combined

I don't know if a combined game will give the same results as I only tried in a separate flat and jumps game. If you find similiar results in your combined game, please post the results.

My experience is based on combined vs jump. Have never played flat only.

I have been tracking potential bars in an external spreadsheet. In a flat only game, more immature horses maxed out their bar each year. When a horse did max out the bar, the chance of the bar increasing at season roll over was much greater. Flat races gave two advantages over my brief run of a combo game:

For immature horses:
- the potential bar increase after each race was far greater in a flat race than a jumps race, even for the exact same horse (exported into second flat game @3 and a jumps game @3). So they are less likely to max the bar per year of growth.
- jumpers that never race at 2, and many that race lightly at 3 have zero or less races also to use to get the potential bar to max by season end, and max the chance it increases.
- horses that seem "born" with the bar maxed, so the current and max potential start the year the same, have the least overall chance of an increase in max potential at year end

So, for breeding, if I want stock that gets to max potential bar by, say age 4, consistently, I must use flat races and race them at 2 while starting a breeding program. I might get there in a combo schedule game, but it takes much longer, even with the same horses.

I still want to breed jumpers, but I think I'll need to regularly infuse them with flat horses. The potential bar seems to require that. The jumping speed bar seems innate. The jumping potential seems to increase via use/training. So as long I take the ones with some jump speed over, I think I come out on better. That needs more testing.

This is somewhat disappointing to read. I shall run some tests on a flat only game, using some 2YO's from my combined game and progressing them via both. But should it be proven that horse development is linked to the type of game you run, that at least for league purposes, is very bad game design.

Rarely my horses max at 3YO a few go at 4YO most hit full at 5YO and a handful at 6YO.

Josh

Early results are not showing anything especially conclusive, with quick cycles through with 3 generations, there are differences between the games, but then there is always the potential for differences when the same horse is used in two games, cannot say I am seeing it weighted heavily towards the flat thus far, least against combined. I remain in agreement the Jump games behave differently due to the lack of 2YO race development.

I also rather missing having them at 1YO

Josh

Your tracking may show less variance due to having better horses. Also, are you tracking the bar increase every race?

The quality of the race and the match of the race to the horse's preference both seem to be a factor in how much the bar increases per race. For instance, a horse that will end up liking 1m2f, that I have in at 1m and in a handicap goes up less than if in a 1m2f and in a graded race. This seems to be another reason stayers max slower, as you rarely would (and reasonably so) start them in staying races. So they improve less on their 2nd, 3rd outings @2-3. I am usually seeing a benefit to racing them at least 1x at 2-3 since I get a big bump usually that first time out. The only one's I'm leery of are the low juvie stamina ones. But even them I may experiment, if I risk an injury put am going to toss them in a field the rest of the season anyway, it may be better in the long run for pushing bars while starting. I don't mind sprinters maturing faster than stayers as that seems realistic enough however it is modeled.

So I am both racing in lower quality races, as that's what most of my stock can do still, these are all new barns. And since I have so much more room for improvement, it becomes clearer when I can't reach it.