How should the stat bars be interpretated as it seems to me all bar the stamina bar have absolutely nothing to do with the horses ability.

I have had horses full on acceleration and speed but they have been unable to quicken past a snail and horses that have very low acceleration and moderate speed have been absolute stars. I just dont get the use of the stats at all i mean all attributes may aswell be hidden as there useless to go on as a guide to the horses ability.

Well I never took notice until yesterday where I had a horse which lost it's first 3 runs as a 3yo and Had a full speed bar with a breeding est of 1m3f.....

Thought surely with a speed bar like that so sent it to ck just incase and it turned out to be awesome at a mile...beating some class milers...

went back to the game and it went on to win over 10 Group 1's at 1m and I would have sold it if I hadn't taken notice of the speed bar...Although the acceleration I don't see useful really but sure it has some meaning!!

Guessing if it does have a high speed bar then keep testing it at different distances don't just go by what the breeding distance says although it's right 99% of the time.

Thats a good point nick, I've never really thought about that. I assumed the best distance was it give or take a furlong either way. I'm gonna have to try that now! My Derby prospects could be better in the guineas, you never know.

nick, did the jockey offer any feedback regarding the trip when he was getting beat over the longer distance ?

Yes, but only after the horse had ran over 1m4f....didn't say anything about distance when ran over 1m2f... As you say sometimes when I have a horse where this is the case most of the time the jockey will say as well but not all of the time... Not really important unless your finding the optimum distance for the league...[/quote]

I Think it's to do with my breeding...What I seem to have found is sometimes I end up breeding wildly!! for example in the case of the horse in question the dam won group races over 7f/1m and the Sire won the derby and the leger....

The distance on breeding should be 1m3f as it says but as I have seen with a lot of horses sometimes they will take the dam's attributes or the sire's attributes in this case the dam which won group races over 7f/1m had the most effect on the progeny which became a miler despite the sire being best over 1m6f....

It is right 99% of the time but if you breed as I have shown above it can vary, ive had plenty and when I say plenty i mean loads of milers who have been better over 6f, this is where I see the speed and stamina bars tell me despite the breeding distance saying 1m the speed and accel bars are near the top and stamina bars basically empty

my condition stat bar the green one next to the red one never gets full. Its always just shy of the top. Anyone else have this problem?

snap!!! Mines the same!

Mine's the same too. Some horses get to the top but only about 3 out of the 65 I own.

zhengwei I think you've posted in the wrong thread.

supercat... how decent are the ones who get to the top on that green bar?, is there any particular difference in them from the others?

"Who gives a stuff about the stat bars" I was told by some merry contributor to this forum when I raised some problems shortly after the game's release.

Anyway; in my experience its the stamina bar which is the key to the horse's best distance. Easy to spot a horse that wants 5/6f (5-10%), or 7/8f (around 20%), or 13/14f (75%), or 16f+(100%).

9-12f is more difficult; as a general rule, I look at the speed, stamina & accel. bars in conjunction, plus the horse's lineage. If the bars are roughly equal, I tend to go for 12f. If the speed and/or accel. bars are higher than the stamina, then 9-10f. Then its a question of testing your judgment on the track.

Unfortunately, in SO4 this process is made more difficult by a number of factors:

a) Jockey comments. "not sure the trip suited" is meaningless and always has been in previous versions. "the trip seemed to just about suit" used to be reliable - it meant that you were only a furlong out; in this version it seems to be just one more of those irritating things that your jockey says when he or she has lost again. "Try a furlong shorter" is often correct, but sometimes means try a furlong more. "The horse will be suited by further" remains accurate - at least two furlongs more. "considering we struggled for pace that was a promising run" is also accurate - the horse needs further whether or not the jockey tells you.

b) the stat bars themselves are not always an accurate reflection of the actual situation. Particularly with 2 yr olds, I often find that the stamina bar lags behind the horse's current optimum distance - it may show that the horse still wants 5/6 fulongs when in fact it wants 7/8 for example. More alarming is the fact that the stamina bar can sometimes be different, depending on whether you access it from the main screen or from the declarations screen.

c) the breeding works differently, as pointed out above. Breeding a 7f horse with a 9f horse would likely produce a miler in previous versions; in this one it will probably produce a 7f or 9f horse. Indeed, there is evidently some hidden code at work in this version that increases the likelyhood of the horses which you buy or breed wanting 7f, 9f, 11f or other useless distances.

The other stat bar that I an taking note of is the starting bar; this is because I am increasingly fed up of the "missed break/ tardy start" thing. It seems to particularly affect animals which race handy or which like to force the pace. Some of them recover to scrape home, but mostly if they miss the break you can press the space bar and watch them trail in down the field. Not entertaining; not challenging - just another tedious miscalculation.

In relation to b Orlando, the stamina bars change, as they always have, (as far as I can remember in almost every version) because the horse is maturing and wanting further but not quite ready for it. E.g. a 10f horse who is changing between 10f and 1m will quite likely win over 1m with the right jockey/tactics/instructions but may not quite get 10f unless the conditions are perfect for it. Mainly because it's stamina hasn't developed enough yet. It's not a mistake, it's supposed to be like that. Jockey comments still p*ss me off too. I don't mind most of them but 'restrained early' or 'held up' and nothing else are the ones that get me most.

Wardie, I can't see it has anything to do with ability. I have one who has full stats and is between G2/G3 class and another who is one of my best horses ever, then another who hasn't even managed to win a race yet out of quite a few low level attempts, luckily it can jump so that's it's next calling!

Supercat, I don't think I explained myself clearly.

Suppose you have a decent 2-yr-old what has won its maiden and maybe a listed race at 5f; and during the summer you have stepped it up to 6f in a G3 and it has won that also. And now its autumn and you might want to run it in, eg the G2 Champagne Stks over 7f as its supposed to be a miler when it grows up.

So you consult the stat bars, but they show the horse as still only wanting 6f; you run in the Mill Reef instead and it loses. The Jockey tells you that it wants 7f, but you look again at the stat bars and they still show 5/6f. Or they show 5/6f on the main screen & 7/8f on the declarations screen. Or vice versa.

I've been playing computer games since the days of the Spectrum 48; this Stable Masters / Starters Orders series is one of the top five in my view and the ability to breed and race your own virtual horses is a work of genius. I have serious reservations about this version though, to do with capacity for sustained gameplay.

In that respect, I think that any game of this nature needs a set of complex problems for the player to master, but the player needs to be able to bring those challenges under his or her control and needs to be provided with accurate tools for this purpose. With SO4 I too often feel that I'm just clicking a series of buttons to see whether the game has decided to let me win or not. This is not conducive of sustained gameplay.

Shortly after the the game's release a contributor posted something along the lines of:

"Is it me playing the game, or the game playing me?" Very elegantly put.

I feel like I haven't explained myself clearly either. The changing stat bars are the point. I bet if you had put said 2yo in the 7f race it may have won, where it was outpaced over 6f. Adding to that I have 2yo's and 3yo's who have what looks like no stamina who want 7f-1m, then others who have stamina who can win over shorter distances. I know how you feel about the game and largely I agree with you, especially as the default schedule is EXTREMELY restricted and (really sorry Mark, I feel awful but it's my opinion) quite poor. That is my main gripe. I just think that that particular part of the game isn't a fault but actually something that is meant to be in there and something that makes it better.

How many times have real trainers put a horse in the Champagne for it not to stay or put one in the Mill Reef only to be completely outpaced and run on at the death. For me it makes it more realistic and means I have to use a bit of intelligence to place my horses.