She wasn't race fit. You will just clutch at anything to make yourself right. It's hilarious.

What does a race from 40 years ago have to do with horses not training on from 2 to 3? My question was does WFA count for horses running solely against their own age group at 2 and 3? To simplify a 2yo runs against 2yo's only in it's 2yo season and only against 3yo's in its 3yo season.

Obviously you aren't actually saying Frankel wasn't better at 4? So then why have you mentioned that?

Did Kauto Star train on each year?

I was using Frankel as an example to say that a horse could not train on, i.e its rating could not be as good as the previous year, yet it could still win top races. Just because she has won the Arc, doesn't mean she hasn't trained on.

Why do you keep mentioning older horses? The term training on is only applicable that are in the years where they are still maturing ie 2 to 4.

I was using Sigy as an example, that is easier to visualize as she actually raced under the WFA system.

Ok, on RPR CDA was rated 126 for his Ganay win. Last year Treve was rated 130. Are you saying being race fit she'd have beaten him by the best part of 3l? Add in the fact CDA beat Flintshire by the same margin at Epsom as Treve beat him at Longchamp. Flintshire himself was 10l closer this year than last.

I'll use this to explain my point.

Green represents the horse WFA predicts. Brown represents a horse that doesn't train on from 3 to 4, though actually the curve should be more pronounced. For a horse that doesn't train on from 2 to 3 it would be even more pronounced. Basically if a horse doesn't improve on ratings from 3 to 4, whether its racing in open company or not, this means it is exactly what the scale WFA predicts, and it has trained on. Nathaniel is a perfect example - rated 126 at both 3 and 4. Horses like Treve, on the brown line, benefit at 3 as they are relatively more mature than other horses of their age. Therefore they are closer to their absolute ability than a horse who follows the green curve. Of course, until they reach 4, we don't know which curve they were on, as they may just have been far better. But what this means is as the other horses approach full maturity they get closer to the horses on the brown curve, so it appears that the horses on the brown curve worsen, even though in reality their core ability is no worse and may improve. The term not training on is used to describe those horses on the brown curve who don't improve as expected i.e maintain their rating from the previous year, which clearly Treve hasn't being 5lb lower. It doesn't mean shes a bad horse though, clearly.

Why do I keep using WFA in relation to 2yos? Because when they calucluate 2yo ratings they still use the WFA scale, and assume that they are at a certain level of maturity.

Can you answer the question I have asked several times?

So horses older than 4 can't train on?

Well it depends if you're European or Australian but in 99% of cases no, their rating would only really improve if they're unexposed like Al Kazeem. If a horses rating gets worse after 4 it's not because they're not improving but are past their best, and this shouldn't really happen until a horse is at least 6. And that's the first time you'd asked that question.

You're stupid.

Explain?

I already answered that.

No you haven't, do you understand English?

And you're also saying Kauto Star was the same horse at 4 that he was at 8?

Thats a new low even for you Matt Autism is a horrible illness to call someone that
is absolutely disgusting and despicable i take offence to that.

Can someone with admin right here please delete the above post i think its the most
disgusting post i have ever seen just be glad Matt you dont suffer or live with such a
disability.

I've often wondered why that keithbeaky fella hasn't already got banned from the forum, he brings nothing but hate and vitriol to an otherwise pleasant discussion area, i have no doubt the forum would be a better place without his hate. I expect he will be given yet another verbal warning, come back in and apologise, retract his statement, and wait for another while before spitting his disgusting bile at someone who doe's not deserve it.

Genuinely can someone with the authority ban this cretin for good, like i say im absolutely certain the forum will improve in many ways without him.

Paul I would of like to have seen the post has I have three children that suffer with Autism I would like to know what was said by Matt Autism takes many forms has I know I have a 23 year old a 19 year old step sons and a 11 year old of my own.

Gray

Sorry to hear that Gray I also Have a Cousin who suffers with Autism

i have no admin rights here so i guess Mark deleted the post

hope your keeping well buddy

Firstly I'll address what you've said here- I did mention it, if you look where I say it applies to horses regardless of whether of they're running in open company not. Also, jumps horses are different types of horses and, improvement in them as they age is due to different reasons.

Secondly, I'll address what I gather you've said, but has now been removed. On my own part I'm not offended- I don't suffer from the illness, and this just about sums you up, resorting to cheap insults to try and back up an argument that has very little basis at all, as well as belittle people. However, using a mental illness as an insult is frankly highly offensive to those that suffer from the disease and have to live with it every day, and using it as an insult shows your true colours as well as a complete lack of understanding. I recall this is not the first time you've used such an insult either.

If you want to have a discussion/argument that's fine, but when you tell people what they are saying is wrong and use such disgusting insults to back your points up, it's questionable what your purpose on these forums is.