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 Flat discussion 
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Post Re: Flat discussion
ghostzapper74 wrote:
3 Questions for people to answer.

First of is there any danger in running that race on soft ground, people keep talking about horses welfare.

Secondly why is it that h'cappers can run ten or more times a season and be fine yet good/very good horses cant seem to run more than 5.

Thirdly why is it that they are now going for the Irish champion with Golden Horn.

My answers.

There is no danger to a horses welfare running on soft ground, apart from getting tired.

Secondly if h'capers can keep coming out often then good horses/sound horses can run more than 5 times a season. They say horses are fitter now than ever so why is it they run less, doesn't make sense.

Finally I think they are only going for the Irish Champion now because they were beat, I think if they had won they would have gone straight to the Arc.


On the ground comment, it isn't just about getting tired. Horses with certain types of actions act better on differing ground... We all know that. The reason trainers are less inclined to run a fast ground horse (I.e. One with a low knee action or 'daisy cutter' action) on soft is that they will actually be putting more strain on their tendons and ligaments, and bones and muscles to pull their feet out of the ground. Hence there is a higher risk of injury and trainers of high profile horses don't risk it.

In the 'olden' days it was believed that doing work on deep ground helped fitten horses up and harden the tendons, (I have actually very recently had a very heated argument with someone about this), but now with new research and better knowledge we know that doing this actually damages the horse and increases the risk of serious injury. Particularly to suspensory ligaments and major tendons, the kind if injuries horses don't come back from.

Slow work (walk for e.g) on deep ground can help to strengthen muscles and tendons whilst reducing impact on an injured joint for example.

The same goes for a slow ground horse on hard going, the high knee action puts more strain on the bones and the muscles and ligaments further up the shoulder and into the pelvis, much more so than running a fast ground horse on soft. The risks are huge and hence you rarely see some NH horses unless the ground is bottomless, you'll often find these have old knee and pelvic injuries as well.

Thus, horses are being run less and less on unsuitable going. I'll stop going on now...!

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
Nasty Nas8 wrote:
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
Secondly Horse welfare always come first for me its hugely important to me I always state the most
important thing is that they all come home safe that really is the only important thing i am insulted that anyone
would think otherwise I enjoy a bet a very occasional one but for me personally my love for racing has absolutely nothing
to do with betting i put a huge amount of time into what i do.


I feel so stupid now. I didn't realise you only had a bet every now and then. Good to hear you agree with me that horse welfare is paramount. It's a pity the racing industry focuses so much on the betting part of the sport and not on other more important issues.



no worries buddy


Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:38 am
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Post Re: Flat discussion
Just wanted to say how great it was to be at York today for Paul Mulrennan and Michael Dods winning their first career Group One race on Mecca's Angel.
A seriously good animal, I remember being at the same meeting in 2013 and watching her sluice up in the Roses Stakes on Ebor Saturday and I didn't realise how good she would be in the future. Big congratulations to all of the connections who have a gorgeous horse.

Another thing which really blew me away was the winning time in the Nunthorpe. 57.14 seconds on good to soft ground. It was only half a second off Dayjur's 25 year old course record time. It's a credit that Acapulco managed to keep up that gallop and finish a clear 2nd and also for the finishing kick Mecca's Angel showed to win going away. I'm sure that if the going was on the fast side of good, the course record would have been smashed today.


Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:09 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
Hysteria21 wrote:
Just wanted to say how great it was to be at York today for Paul Mulrennan and Michael Dods winning their first career Group One race on Mecca's Angel.
A seriously good animal, I remember being at the same meeting in 2013 and watching her sluice up in the Roses Stakes on Ebor Saturday and I didn't realise how good she would be in the future. Big congratulations to all of the connections who have a gorgeous horse.

Another thing which really blew me away was the winning time in the Nunthorpe. 57.14 seconds on good to soft ground. It was only half a second off Dayjur's 25 year old course record time. It's a credit that Acapulco managed to keep up that gallop and finish a clear 2nd and also for the finishing kick Mecca's Angel showed to win going away. I'm sure that if the going was on the fast side of good, the course record would have been smashed today.


Actually dayjur went almost a second quicker in 56.16, u got to question the going on both days because I had a look at the times of both days and the ground couldn't have been that different. The 7F listed race on Dayjur's card was run in 1.22.81 and today it was run only 0.31 slower and the 1m h'cap was run in 1.36.33 and today it was only 0.36 slower, now I watched Dayjur's live and I cant remember if it rained but the times are close considering that it was g/f on one day and g/s on the other. I think it proves that just looking at the ground conditions on the race card can be misleading.

What a run by Acapulco, I wonder if she will train on because fast 2yo's old never seem to train on the next year.


Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
The jockeys said the ground wasnt really slow just it was sticky so was hard work


Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:49 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
I asked this in the Ebor thread...

Quote:
Just started handicapping day 2 and I must ask are all the owners of horses in the UK rich? How does an owner of an average horse manage to pay the bills with such minuscule purse money for cheap races? 2k total purse for a maiden race? The other races after maiden level don't seem to be much better either.


Is betting the only thing that makes racing in the UK a profitable venture? If so the whole thing is ripe for race fixing and other shenanigans. I'm looking at a horse in race 2 for Saturday with a solid record - Duke Street ~ 5 wins from 13 starts with measly career earnings of £20,067.

It must be fun watching only the super rich and the sheiks race their horses year after year. :roll:

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Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:07 am
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Post Re: Flat discussion
SiriusChill wrote:
I asked this in the Ebor thread...

Quote:
Just started handicapping day 2 and I must ask are all the owners of horses in the UK rich? How does an owner of an average horse manage to pay the bills with such minuscule purse money for cheap races? 2k total purse for a maiden race? The other races after maiden level don't seem to be much better either.


Is betting the only thing that makes racing in the UK a profitable venture? If so the whole thing is ripe for race fixing and other shenanigans. I'm looking at a horse in race 2 for Saturday with a solid record - Duke Street ~ 5 wins from 13 starts with measly career earnings of £20,067.

It must be fun watching only the super rich and the sheiks race their horses year after year. :roll:


One word yes, but that's the way they want it. There's to much racing and there's a over kill on absolute garbage racing. Racing's ruling body is in bed with the bookies and they think the more racing there is the more people bet and the more money they get back from the bookies. Our flat racing is no longer about top class grass racing but about garbage AW racing, and it's only getting worse.

I don't bet on run of the mill racing anymore because it's questionable at best, unless u in the know then u on the outside looking in. If it's not for the mug punters and mug owners then racing would implode.


Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:27 am
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Post Re: Flat discussion
My website got a nice review in the Racing Post on Sunday thought id share

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Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:00 am
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Post Re: Flat discussion
Paul if Aidan splits with Coolmore who would u stay with.

U could keep u sites name if u stay with Aidan but u would have to change it if u were to go with Coolmore. I know it's a IF but I didn't know that One of the partners is not happy with Aidan and his Son.


Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
All rumors mate a very bad case of Chinese whispers amazed the television media has gone with it
there is no evidence of any rift and alot of the facts are incorrect the Channel 4 one about MT not wanting JOB on Found
was a load of rubbish he was on Ballydoyle in a G2 Day Before and was going to ride Gleneagles at York (Lets not go there)

Coolmores PR has always been awful really shocking they really should put all this to bed its getting very unhealthy its now spreading like
wildfire i understand its there policy not to comment on speculation but I now think in this case they should say something 1 way or another.

All I can say there is no word in Ballydoyle of Aidan's Imminent departure its business as usual but in more cases then not there
is no smoke without fire and i have heard a few things from good sources but very much doubt its got to the point where he wants
to walk or to the point where you could say there is a rift or a split I however would not be surprised if he wanted to retire in the
near future some of his comment of late lean to this.

Maybe decades of immense pressure have taken there toll.

Its Tough to answer your question because i just dont see Aidan starting up somewhere else Its no secret Joseph is looking for staff
at the O'Brien's Training Facility in Kilkenny which has been fully renervated of late id say he will get his licence soon and train AMOB
Jumpers Joseph already trains them anyway and he would also be supported by JP.


Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
It would be good to see either Joe or Aidan train jumpers, need more competition over jumps because Mullins is just to good and it's not good just having 1 trainer dominate like he does.

I think JOB has always had way to much stick for his riding, all jockeys make mistakes. I also like Aidan, always comes across well and always answer the questions( it must be a royal pain in the arse having 3 bosses) .

But I'm not a fan of Coolmore, it's more about money than it is about racing.


Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:53 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
This my friends is a performance of the highest quality. Winx wins the Theo Marks Stakes at Rosehill today. Winx is the horse in the back with the blue silks. Notice she encounters trouble halfway through the race.

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/VideoResult.aspx?MeetDate=2015Sep12&VenueCode=OTc1MTA2&RaceNumber=7&MeetingCategory=Professional&VideoFileType=FullReplay

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:24 am
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Post Re: Flat discussion
Well the St Leger was interesting, I think it was the right result in every other country apart from ours. I think those stewards were looking at the wrong rules because if they were looking at our rules then she shouldn't have got demoted :lol: .

Btw I think our rules are awful.


Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:24 pm
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Post Re: Flat discussion
SiriusChill wrote:
This my friends is a performance of the highest quality. Winx wins the Theo Marks Stakes at Rosehill today. Winx is the horse in the back with the blue silks. Notice she encounters trouble halfway through the race.

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/VideoResult.aspx?MeetDate=2015Sep12&VenueCode=OTc1MTA2&RaceNumber=7&MeetingCategory=Professional&VideoFileType=FullReplay


Access to video was dropped quickly - my apologies. Someone has uploaded a poor quality video of the race on youtube. I highly recommend watching it. It is such an outstanding performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuiYGHVQqTU

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Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:18 am
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Post Re: Flat discussion
Nasty Nas8 wrote:
If there is anyone interested in breeding, or would like to learn more about it, I have done a feature on it for the Juddmonte Farms (Fan Page) which you can find by going to the link -

http://www.facebook.com/JuddmonteFarmsFanPage


Following on from my breeding feature last year, I have done another one exclusively for the Juddmonte Farms (Fan Page) on Facebook. This one is all about training. So if that sort of thing floats your boat please click on this link - https://www.facebook.com/notes/juddmont ... 4637386611

I have at least three other features lined up in future. The next one will, hopefully, include someone who has been at the top of the sport for the best part of the last twenty years.

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