Gray take no notice of matt, u have done a wonderful job with the schedule.

Matt I'm not arguing with u any more. As my uncle would say.......Have u head.

Thats because I have proved your points to be factually incorrect. And your points in this discussion are imo selfish. Asking for a 5f G1 race for 2yo's and changing the Prince Of Wales to 3+ because you dont have older horses are incredibly selfish requests. Some trainers would like a 0-80 5f 2yo race to aim at and some trainers do have older horses they would like to aim at the 4+ races.

To summarise;

The top trainers have a far greater amount of winning opportunities. This is not disproved just by saying the middle and lower trainers had more runners. That was quite often not through choice. One stat or fact of anything never tells the whole story. I could say I've been the best flat trainer throughout SO5 as I have won the trainers title BOTH seasons. But that statement is simply not true. Andy was far better than me in season one and others were better in season two.


I'll give up now as there wont be any changes. I'm simply trying to improve the league for the smaller trainers. I thought the league was for everyone.

Week 3

Take out Robert Sangster Stakes G1 6f 3+ fillies Morphettville
Irish Farm Blue Wand Stakes G3 10f 3+ fillies Naas WE could then Put the Kentucky Derby in this week from wk5


Week 5 with the two races moving to week 3 could add 2 handicaps and move preankness into this week from week 6

Week 7 Coral Charge Sprint Stakes 5f G3 Sandown 3+

Week12 Get rid of Japan Group races ? Kukuka Sho, Hanshin Cup,Radio Nekki nissai stakes

These are just suggestions by me this means 6 less group races and 6 more handicaps.


Gray

Matt I have tried to make the schedule to my best ability if you or anybody can do it better job please make one I have been open to suggestions since I started this project ghost requested a race for 5f 2yo's to aim for no other trainer had a problem with it and if Mr follis or Nick came in here and requested certain Band rated Handicaps I would also try and accommodate them as you see above I have looked at group races and these are ones I think we could do without maybe not the Japan ones I am sure trainers would want them to stay.

Now can you point out to me which Group races you think can be cut.

Gray

p.s Matt yes I had a few group runners last season mostly in stayers races apart from some new uploads which where better than I had already in the league which Remember Me Not won at Ascot in group Race on debut and never troubled the judge again

Simmer down a little chaps...

Here's my two cents... For me it wasn't necessarily the amount of group races (though I do think it is a little high), it was the spread of the races. Why have 4 (or more) races for 3yo over 7f and 1m? It might tie in with real life, but I don't think it works well here. Those slots could be used for other races, handicaps or even a listed series for horses/trainers who have never won a race. I think that is where you are wasting space, not necessarily on the many G1's.

Follis HAS requested more handicaps. Nick has said in other threads that he struggled to enter his horses in appropriate races, ie handicaps. But apart from that there have only been suggestions from myself and Ghost I think? I have been largely ignored and Ghost has had his requests met? So Follis hasn't had his requests met, I haven't and Ghost has. So you've ignored Follis and myself. And you will also notice a lot, nearly all, of the lower trainers dont use the forum. Does that mean they shouldn't be thought about and catered for? To accept the requests of a top trainer but to ignore others does not look particularly good. Have you read the other threads about schedules?

Gray if you remember you decided to make a brand new schedule after mine, which Im guessing means you didn't rate mine? I didn't and haven't taken that as a personal attack but any comments I make on yours are taken like that. All i want to do is make the schedule is fair and balanced for every trainer whether they have a stable of Frankel's or load of Blackpool donkeys. Thats it.

I really think you should add up all the races. How many 0-90 handicaps at each distance and age, how many 0-100, 0-110, listed, G3, G2 and G1 etc. Then see what distance and class might be lacking races and which possibly have too many.

A lot of your horses ran in Group races. I've checked.

Im very simmered.

Your points about spread of races is spot on. Something I have tried to highlight a few times. Week 2 is a prime example of this with the 6-10f listed and group races. And it happens in quite a few weeks.

Back in 08 there were only high level races and my horses were trounced in the 1st 2 weeks
so yes i gave up as i had no chance but like ghost it made me try harder and put more time in
to become better over recent seasons your first season can be a wake up call
but gives you the bug to want more

Some trainers just don't have the time to put in (to be a contender) but still want the chance
to win races in lge

the lge has come on light years from the 08 version there are opportunities for every trainer to win races
only 4 trainers failed to win races on flat this season and only 2 in the NHC
so last season only 6 trainers failed to score a win 10.53% of all trainers that's fairly decent %
i would obviously love to see every trainer win a race

I have to admit, I do think that you're focusing on the wrong thing. What I found frustrating about last season on the flat and NH wasn't the fact that I didn't win many races, but the fact that often I couldn't find a place to run my horses. I didn't have a balanced team, I admit, but I did end up feeling like had to enter group/listed races with some of them. But by the same token there were lots of races I could have entered if they weren't 3yo only, for example in the Goodwood week where there were two 3yo only 1m4f handicaps. I didn't really mind only winning one to two races, but I did mind feeling like I didn't have many chances.

Realistically it is the smaller trainers who should be able to enter horses every single week, not the top trainers. I think for some of the top guys to say 'you shouldn't expect to run every week' (even though many of them did) is quite unfair on the guy with the 0-80 handicapper who has to wait 3 weeks or more for a chance of a run, I think that is where people started to give up in the middle of the season because they just had no chance in a 0-110, but there were few 0-80's/90's. But this is a really sticky issue because if we end up with way fewer group races and more handicaps people like Matt and PJ and Leon (for example) will have to run in those and will likely dominate those and people will complain that it is unfair that they are running group horses in handicaps. Or we have the situation we have now where the schedule is dominated by group races so that most of the top trainer's horses stick to those so that the average Joe can really have a chance of winning a big handicap.

Unless we make the season longer I don't really see a way around it. The only thought I have is having unrealistic age bands, for example the European Free could be made 3yo+, races like the Edinburgh Cup could also be 3yo+ as the 3yo already have a 1m4f race (forgotten the name) the next week at Royal Ascot. The weeks which should remain unchanged are Meydan, Royal Ascot, Arc week and Breeders Cup week I think. A lot of the other listed/handicaps for 3yo only could be made 3yo+... I think.

I for one in favour of making every handicap a 3+ age this would help trainers I am also in favour of having Rated banded handicaps changed down from 110 this would help the smaller trainer by this I mean a top trainer who might put is 110 rated group horse in the Ebor for example if this happens the smaller trainer would have less chance of winning because it would run out of the handicap.

I have taken notice matt I am currently going through the schedule getting all the spread of races I can see your point in the early weeks we do need lower Banded Handicap's if this means group races being cut trainers will have to discuss this or it means we will have to expand a few more races each week.

I don't think trainer's want to extend the season any further Cat if we didn't have Auteuil in last seasons NH Schedule in week 13 it would still be 12.

Gray

Matt why not put your own schedule together let everyone see your vision for the lge

Gray is not physic he cant guess what everyone wants
this thread has been open for about 6 weeks for everyone to speak up and put forward there ideas
Gray has said he is open to what people want

I would like to see your ideas for the schedule
instead of continually saying whats wrong with this one
I fully believe your intentions are for the good of casual player/lesser trainers
you have always been in to bat for them as i have

I know you have stated that you did one before but it was binned
but would it be possible for you to do a new one so people could see for them selves
what your ideas are

then the majority can decide whats put forward
I appreciate what Gray has done he has put alot of time into this and should be commended

I only entered the league for the first time last year and had a dreadfully unbalanced team but that was my fault.

Looking at the schedule i would suggest:

week 1 is fine
week 2: change the free handicap to max rating 100
change the fielden to a listed handicap capped at 100
week 3: maybe the pretty polly and blue wind are too similar? could change the pretty polly to a listed handicap again although this might clash with the AW series
a 6f fillies group 1 is maybe unnecessary
if the qatar handicap over 12f was 3+ the bath handicap could be changed to a different distance
the Qatar listed 10f race is another that is similar to the blue wind
week 4: the lockinge is down as a 12f race this should be 8f
there is a 2m handicap and a 1m 7f handicap, too similar?
the 0-80 and 0-85 races are ok this early in the season but last season horses were finishing down the field in maidens and being rated 80+
week 5: keep the diomed and ditch the princess elizabeth
week 6 is fine
week 7: not sure the manhattan handicap is necessary with the eclipse and belmont stakes although it is on dirt
week 8 9 10 and 11 seem fine
week 12: the hanshin cup with 2 6f races and one 7f already is maybe too much
week 13: i like the idea of G1 handicaps because anyone with a well handicapped horse can run well but there are a lot of group races this week, maybe ditch the arima kinen because theres already the caulfield cup and the group 3 over 7f and bring in 2 proper handicaps. Also get rid of the lightning stakes or the galaxy and bring in another normal handicap. The maiden on the last week is pretty pointless because its the last week

Just some suggestions, not saying they are correct, just ideas

Thanks tom for your feedback some good ideas and more trainers like yourself who made debut last season are very welcomed I will be looking through the schedule again and will change a few things including the free Handicap and 6f g1 fillies sprint.


Gray

P.S I did notice the lockinge and already been changed to 1m just didn't update the one online will update when I change things.

Why not turn the hanshin cup into a Group 2, 6 furlong 0-100 h'capp, the horses above 100+ has the group 1 races to run in. There's something for all sprinters to aim for then. Or even turn it into a group 1 for 0-100 h'cappers, it would be a group one race with a massive pot of 2.8M for genuine h'caps that perhaps has to have run three times over 5 or 6 furlongs. Perhaps even let trainers have two runners so it becomes one of those massive field races.

In the final week have half the races G1 H'caps for 0-100 horses and the other half group 1 races then every horse has a race to aim for.