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 Flat Group 1 minimum ratings 

Should there be minimun rating for G1's on the flat - week 1 and 6 not included
Poll ended at Sun May 24, 2020 9:23 am
Mimimun Rating 85 24%  24%  [ 5 ]
Mimimun Rating 90 43%  43%  [ 9 ]
No Miminum Rating 33%  33%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 21

 Flat Group 1 minimum ratings 
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
ghosty wrote:
NPG319 wrote:
ghosty wrote:
I voted for no minimum rating, I think it's a case of play the hand u dealt . U get lucky sometimes and unlucky other times.


If you watch the hcp'ing - the only lowly rated Group winners are 75 rated horses having their first start.
I think the first six weeks should be free for all but after week six you know if your stable or horses are realistic Group winning chances.
I voted 90 but 85 is fine....maybe even 80.

Martin but I have a horse who ran well in her first 2 starts and then got drawn out in the car park and finished no where and yet she wouldn't be allowed to run in the big races. Her mark was 104 and then the h'capper put her down to 85 and after her last race was put back up to 100. So some weeks she would be allowed and others not.


That inconsistency is down to the change over of handicappers.


Tue May 19, 2020 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
What about if u got drawn outside the car park in week 1 and then u could miss the dubai races because of it.


Tue May 19, 2020 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
ghosty wrote:
What about if u got drawn outside the car park in week 1 and then u could miss the dubai races because of it.


These races are in week 1 and shouldn't have any handicap limits as stated in poll.


Tue May 19, 2020 2:19 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
Is this really needed top 16 if more 16 runners are selected anyway on ratings
I suppose if you put a minimum in it will stop new trainers throwing horses straight
into G1 company and wrecking the horses rating.

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Tue May 19, 2020 2:36 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
Is this really needed top 16 if more 16 runners are selected anyway on ratings
I suppose if you put a minimum in it will stop new trainers throwing horses straight
into G1 company and wrecking the horses rating but what about the opening weeks G1s
and the G1s after the window.



They excluded if you read the whole poll question


Tue May 19, 2020 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
sorry Leon only started on page 2 did not read the original post

Like in real life it sometimes becomes luck of the draw this balances out throughout
a full season Agree with John on that you play the hand you are dealt.

I also really believe the window has to be after Royal Ascot TBH it makes a mess of things
chopping horses before Ascot.

I ended up chopping my Queen Anne & Prince of Wales runners. Races that were their targets to
make room for subs I'm sure other trainers did the same thing.

I think the issues last night were down to the window being before Ascot you could make week
7 a week with alot more maidens in just my thoughts

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Tue May 19, 2020 2:44 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
ghosty wrote:
What about if u got drawn outside the car park in week 1 and then u could miss the dubai races because of it.


John, I am the new handicapper. I have been watching out for this. I am looking for what is a 'natural' wide draw and what isn't. Barrier 20 at Wolverhampton is unnatural. Barrier 20 at Ascot isn't such a drama.
My own observations of the league game - and this spans SO6 to 7 is that for whatever reason, the mechanics of some tracks run like it is a straight track where you notice horses travelling wide around bends don't suffer from it to other tracks where being wide around a bend makes a load of difference. I don't know if this is down to game tracks compared to custom tracks OR if there is a built in limiter to each track that only kicks in after a certain number of starters for individual tracks.
My first week handicapping was Wolverhampton on the AW. The majority of horses drawn wide were finished after the first bend - I knocked a couple of points off each affected horse and saw them as non starters.

This is why we really need to limit starter numbers on some tracks and if need be, run two legs of the one race. It will be fairer on the trainers and easier on the handicapper.

No shade on Craig as this handicapping gig is a bloody pain in the rear end.


Tue May 19, 2020 2:45 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
sorry Leon only started on page 2 did not read the original post

Like in real life it sometimes becomes luck of the draw this balances out throughout
a full season Agree with John on that you play the hand you are dealt.

I also really believe the window has to be after Royal Ascot TBH it makes a mess of things
chopping horses before Ascot.

I ended up chopping my Queen Anne & Prince of Wales runners. Races that were their targets to
make room for subs I'm sure other trainers did the same thing.

I think the issues last night were down to the window being before Ascot you could make week
7 a week with alot more maidens in just my thoughts


I think luck should be a part of it , swings and roundabouts . If u look at chelts or Aintree they both have their problems as race courses , the bends going out into the country are bloody awful but we don't limit the numbers there . I think one week over half my runners were drawn on the far outside and u just have to :roll: u eyes to it.


Tue May 19, 2020 2:55 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
ghostzapper74 wrote:
pjrhodes1970 wrote:
sorry Leon only started on page 2 did not read the original post

Like in real life it sometimes becomes luck of the draw this balances out throughout
a full season Agree with John on that you play the hand you are dealt.

I also really believe the window has to be after Royal Ascot TBH it makes a mess of things
chopping horses before Ascot.

I ended up chopping my Queen Anne & Prince of Wales runners. Races that were their targets to
make room for subs I'm sure other trainers did the same thing.

I think the issues last night were down to the window being before Ascot you could make week
7 a week with alot more maidens in just my thoughts


I think luck should be a part of it , swings and roundabouts . If u look at chelts or Aintree they both have their problems as race courses , the bends going out into the country are bloody awful but we don't limit the numbers there . I think one week over half my runners were drawn on the far outside and u just have to :roll: u eyes to it.



Look at some races at Cheltenham and the grand national at Antree some horses not even running on the course
some actually running on the stands you cant have a 16 runner Grand National or Gold Cup
I have had some rotten draws on the flat this season too you just take it on the chin

also think the double entry has been a big help in keeping major trainers horses in major races I think
removing this will be a backward step and as someone said think it was Josh it will be the bigger trainers
will put horses in any race they can get a run in taking chances away from the others and thats why Gray
bought that in after week 3 Tennessee Prince ran in the Guineas he was rated lowly and could have ran in any
handicap but went for the guineas because of the double entry system which IMO works.

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Tue May 19, 2020 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
So Tunisia with the proposed new rules could have run in a 0 - 90 handicap
and would not have even got in the 1000 Guineas - I rest my case :lol:

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Tue May 19, 2020 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
No one wants changes to NH. The bigger the field the better for G1's in NH. They really should not even be compared. There is no draw bias in NH, and the races are much longer so horses move to the inside and out as races progress.

We talking about the flat where a horses chance has gone on first bend. The race running needs improvement as jockeys should not be going so far wide or making room for horses to pass them on the inside but it is what is. If we agree to add more G1 handicaps the issue would go away. In addition G1 handicaps by the very nature give all trainers more chance of winning a G1.

Double entries should stay as it has opened a lot of races for other trainers, as top trainers don't have entries in them


Tue May 19, 2020 3:23 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
I've had some terrible draws this season however I was quick to notice that over half my string wasn't good enough so they went h/capping which is something new trainers fail to recognise week in week out they persist in putting they're amazing in game G1 winners into top races hoping they'll somehow turn into Pegasus it's not their fault as we all know what a steep learning curve this game has.so perhaps upping the rating is the answer but I also agree that whatever draw you get that's the way it goes you just gotta suck it up buttercup.


Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
Tunisia Would have been in Guineas with min rating of 85. This could even be 80 to be honest. 90 is a bit steep, 80 or 85 is much better as would allow injured horses in who normally get raised to 85.


Tue May 19, 2020 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
No Stu but could have kept her for the Royal Hunt Cup running off 87 considering she has gone up
38 lbs in 2 races it would have been quite the coup :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tue May 19, 2020 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Flat Group 1 minimum ratings
Deleted this and it is relevant ... Doh!

My point about ONE entry was purely for G1's, 16/20 runners, ballot out the bottom.

2 runners has been a godsend, but in this instance it would be fairer.

Everyone should be entitled to have an opportunity to enter their horses in a G1 (not a G1 handicap) regardless of rating or being a donkey.


Thu May 21, 2020 11:18 am
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