Paul I remember, Andy and Keith
Andy won all the races but Keith plotted and won the title. I don't get it why people want to win them. Perhaps it's just me 
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| Author: | Githyanki [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Titles |
Poll to raise the question on title, it has been wins in my time but with returning trainers from when it was money figured it was worth raising. |
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| Author: | leonvr [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
You need to add an option for shared. Win if you win both. Shared if you win wins but dont win prize money etc |
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| Author: | leonvr [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
The disadvantage of wins is that big trainers start putting their horses in races meant for smaller trainers instead of races with big prize money. Shared is best as you need to keep an eye on both wins and prize money. To win outright you will need to win both |
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| Author: | leonvr [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
We need a shared option Wins is bad because 1. Big trainers hunt wins in races designed for small trainers. SO you start finding top trainers in hunter chasers etc 2. Trainers fiddle handicap marks to get more wins. Which has always led to unpleastness in the league 3. The above 2 are not good for the league at all and outweigh any disadavantage that prize money has I still maintain it should be shared and it's pointless having this poll if that is not an option |
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| Author: | kniesh [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
I'd say a shared option needed as there are flaws for both wins, and prize money. as Leon mentioned there, wins can be flawed, but prize money I feel like you could just target the Everest an World Cup and it's basically over as anything winning them will pick up more than enough in other dirt 1m2 an other sprint races, were as you could pick up nearly all the classics an still not get near |
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| Author: | HurricaneRun [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
We try to make this league a simulation of real life racing with the schedules, the commentaries, the betting etc. And in real life racing, the championships are decided on prize money alone. Jockey title yes, that goes on wins and for that reason you see De Sousa jetting off all over the place to collect wins on the AW evening meetings as well as at all of the main turf meets as well. Trainers like Gosden, O'Brien, Henderson, Mullins etc all go for the big prize money as that is what decides a top trainer. So i'll vote on that but also say that at the very least, if wins are factored in that should be to share a title. Or have two, one for most wins and one for most prize money, with an undisputed title if someone wins both. I'm new to the league again after so many years away so not sure how it was decided last season but my belief was that it was shared on flat and won outright by Leon in the NH? If we wanted to change that approach for the new season it should have been done before week one, as having a vote on it after week one - and coincidentally a week where Leon has rinsed Dubai and taken a huge early lead - feels a little unfair. |
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| Author: | HurricaneRun [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
Vinny if that's the case we should probably look at the prize money available across the races and make it less 'severe' and imbalanced? |
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| Author: | kniesh [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
HurricaneRun wrote: Vinny if that's the case we should probably look at the prize money available across the races and make it less 'severe' and imbalanced? As far as I can see the prize money is reflective of real life, which is good. The difference here is all the trainers enter all the races, or have access to. In real life we wouldn't all be able to enter the World Cup, Everest, Breeders Cup, Japan Cup etc. Most trainers over here are limited to UK and France, Being able to enter all these really rich races makes it slightly different to real life racing I think. So the decision would need to be based on SO version, not really real life. That said, I do think the shared option is definitely best, last season Paul an Leon definitely deserved to share it, so the 3 tier one, wins, money, and an overall if you take both seems fair to me |
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| Author: | Githyanki [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
Updated to include the third option. |
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| Author: | ghosty [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
I think prizemoney is good over jumps because there's no massive pot like the Melbourne Cup and that on the flat. As I come from someone that's never cared about these champs I think wins is best on the flat. |
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| Author: | HurricaneRun [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
well played Josh |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
ghosty wrote: I think prizemoney is good over jumps because there's no massive pot like the Melbourne Cup and that on the flat. As I come from someone that's never cared about these champs I think wins is best on the flat. There was a huge row over this when I was president the argument was all you need is a decent Dubai and you are crowned champion trainer in the first 2 weeks of the season there are a few more big money races now but its still pretty much the same The only fair thing is to make every G1 worth the same amount of money if you go with £PM I'm for rewarding consistency at the highest level but not when some Gr1s are worth 25 times some others Shared probably the lowest maintenance option and the fairest really plus opportunity for a few people to win 1 of each if same person wins both there is no argument anyway |
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| Author: | ghosty [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
Paul I remember, Andy and Keith Andy won all the races but Keith plotted and won the title. I don't get it why people want to win them. Perhaps it's just me
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
ghosty wrote: Paul I remember, Andy and Keith Andy won all the races but Keith plotted and won the title. I don't get it why people want to win them. Perhaps it's just me Oh man was one hooley of a row it went on and on and on he won it in the last week winning the Melbourne Cup Bearing in mind Andy won 80% of the other Gr1s and was the most dominant force by a long way in league history shows how flawed crowning By £PM is As I say best to share it I can easily update the dcc in fact i Already cover both there anyway just need to rename a few things UKRA Champion Trainer By Wins UKRA Champion Trainer By £PM NHC Champion Trainer By Wins NHC Champion Trainer By £PM But lets see how the poll goes first |
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| Author: | ghosty [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titles |
I think we need just one champ winner. Perhaps a points champ between the two. |
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