Hi,

First season in the league, have a few in the flat stable so i could get a feel for what I needed, picked up a win and a 3rd in week 2, so at least i know i am going somewhere along the right lines and completely delighted!

I have read the two topics from Paul about pre-trialing, which were very useful. I have a couple of questions regarding getting a national hunt game set up for the league.

On the flat, 2 year olds, get 2/3 runs in Maiden/Novices then into a group race at Ascot (Coventry/Norfolk), then move onto 7/mile, take in the Group 1's at Longchamp & Breeders Cup. (that's the route for my top horses, those a little behind mop up the other group races around the place)
3 year olds, go down their given routes of either mile group 1,s 1m2 Group 1's, 1m4 Group 1's, etc. I never keep many in training, so i would have one miler for colts & filly in Newmarket & the Curragh, then another would do Longchamp and they would all meet at the Coronation/St James
4 year olds, i keep very few.

So i have quite a simple process of progression for my flat horses.

Now decided, i would branch out into the National Hunt side of things and by golly did i get an eye opener. Played three seasons, currently all over the shop, don't know whether i am going forwards or backwards.

Would somebody be able to give me a rough template on progression for national hunt types;

i.e. 2 year old (do not race as not NH types or should i run them on the flat?)
3 year old (flat races + French racing) 3 runs and out to the field??
4 year old (juvies with the best horse going for JCB at Cheltenham and the Wiser at Newbury?)
5 year old (group hurdles??)
6 year old (beginners chases + what is a few big races to aim for)
7 year old (Group Chasing? or is there another step in between)
8 year old ???

FYI - i am using the Start it Mod, so you have a rough idea of the schedule i am using.

Also in terms of breeding for national hunt, would you recommend keeping the national hunt view on so you see how many group wins they have, or do you keep with top Fee's for newcomers coming in and keep some flat through them for speed?

Thanks

Connor

This is what I do.

Started with one combined game and tried to breed both Flat and NH horses but found I then had hundreds of horses in the game. It was hard to keep track of everything that was going on, so I made a copy of my combined game in slot 2.

Now I had the same game but in two slots. I decided to use slot 1 for Flat only breeding and slot 2 for NH only breeding. The first thing I did was look at what horses were going to form the basis of my flat game and deleted all the other horses from the game. I then went to slot 2 and did the same thing for what horses I felt would be the best in the NH game.

This left me with two games with a manageable number of horses in each save, roughly 80 -100 horses in the racing stable in each save.


Now, my aim is to breed for the league and not really playing a normal game.

In the NH save I give all my 2yo horses 4 races. I don't really worry about which races so long as they get 4 races. Then at 3yo they get another 4 races, again I don't really worry about which races, but I do try to make them as appropriate to a horses best distance as possible.

As 4yo they run in juvenile/novice hurdles, again only about 4 or 5 races.
As 5yo I usually try to put my horses in about 4 or 5 novice chase races.
At 6yo they go into group hurdles races, again only about 5 races per season.
At 7yo they go into group chases for about 5 races.

I find that in my game my 2 mile and 2 mile 4f horses hit their peak at 7yo so now I export them to the CK and trial them over both hurdles and fences.

My longer distance horses are exported as soon as they turn 8yo before their potential can drop and again I trial the longer distance horses.


Breeding: I only send the horses that have trialled well to the Barn. They don't neccesarily have to have won trial races but they should at least have shown some good potential. Because I only send the best horses to the barn, I have roughly 75 mares and 15 stallions in the barn.
Also, look out for the best gamebred stallions in the barn. They are good way to quickly improve your horses.

thank you very much Jim Morgan for your reply.

What i am taking from this is that regardless of the race in the game, the horses progresses the same.

Therefore if i ran a horse in a Group race and a Novice Chase it would progress the same regardless for the purposes of the league, is that correct?

Thanks

Connor

I do try to race horses in the races that should suit them best but sometimes I am just lazy and throw all the horses in the same races.

You are correct in saying that the races in the game don't really matter, they can give an indication of a horses best distance and performance but I have found that it is only CK performance that counts.

I have horses in my league team who never won a race in the game but were stars in the CK and also vice versa, 20 x G1 winning horses have been flops in the CK.

Some people race a horse 10 times a season and they rack up multiple group wins but I never race a horse more than 5 times a season. Two reasons for this, the first is horses don't improve any better with more than 5 races and secondly, you can progress thru the seasons much faster.

Hope this helps

Jim

What game are you playing as this will change the answer.

Broadly echo what Jim says. But you must get them worked out in game and have them running suitable races as it does alter elements of their progression. It is less of an issue for hurdlers, really flat horses can hurdle without too much trouble, chasers are different you need to get them over fences to get the best out of them before export.

Josh

Something else to consider.

Are you using manual training game, if so, as Josh says you can alter a horses abilities quite a lot. Me I use the automatic training game. I find that by following the guidelines below my horses progress quite nicely. It is only when they are 6yo and 7yo that I try to be more carefull about which races\distances I run my horses.

As 4yo they run in juvenile/novice hurdles, again only about 4 or 5 races.
As 5yo I usually try to put my horses in about 4 or 5 novice chase races.
At 6yo they go into group hurdles races, again only about 5 races per season.
At 7yo they go into group chases for about 5 races.


So each horse gets about 10 hurdles races and 10 chase races. I have never seen any great improvement by giving horses more races in the automatic training game.

When I trial my horses in the CK, I trial all horses over both hurdles and fences, regardless of how well they perform in the game.

I think Josh uses manual training and he has had great success in the league doing so, me, I guess I just like to keep things as simple as possible.

One other thing, look out for good gamebred stallions in the barn. I found a 2 mile chaser and 4m chaser in the barn that has significantly improved my horses this league season.

Echo this also. It is very easy to stagnate in these games and if it gets too bad your game will basically just decline as you keep diluting what you have. You need to use gamebred horses a lot though most are not going to help, you also need to help the game pool by sprinkling in your best horses and letting the game take advantage of that.

I largely ignored this in my Australian flat game, and after 84 seasons of banging my head against the wall and watching my horses get worse I finally deleted it. Not yet decided if I will start another.

As for manual training it is more work but it allows for more focussed training. I don’t think you can develop them to be better in the round, but you can make specific adjustments. End of the day if the horse does not have the magic trial gene it makes no difference what you do.

Josh

I 100% percent agree, i work my jumpers out in game because it saves masses of time running ck races.

I don't see how working your jumpers out in the game saves time.

How many races in the game do need to work out your horses?

Also, I have never found game form being equateable to CK form. I wish it did.

I assume you then watch every single in-game race your horses are entered into. How long does that take? I only watch a handfull races in the game, to get a rough idea of a horses distance preference.

I run CK races at each of the major race distances, ( 2m, 2m 4f, 3m, 3m 5f and 4m 2f ) and I can usually work out my best horses in about 8 - 10 races, 4 hurdles and 5 chase races. At the end of each season I probably export about 15 x 7yo and about 5 x 8yo, ( the 8yo are the 3m 6f+ horses ). Now I admit that probably adds up to about 30 -35 CK races at the end of each season.

Is that any more than the number of races you watch in the game? Once you have watched all these in-game races, do you also watch any CK races?

Because I have small numbers of horses at each distance, I have small fields in each race, none of the in-game variables come into effect, running wide round bends doesn't become a factor. I run all the races at double speed, never seen any difference between single and double speed results.

Real Life jumps schedule is not very good for this game and so i've changed it a fair bit , u need more group races so u can take on the best computer jumpers . My jumpers in their 7/8 age season will race about 3 or 4 times at seven then 4 or 5 at 8 and by the end i'll know what their best distances are. I've got a big championship at the end of the season in May in my home town course and I made a Oz jumps schedule/game to add some fun into my game . I'll watch all the group races through this season. I dont want to breed horses just for the league and have zero fun in my game, i'd get bored quickly. I still love playing this game , im having more fun with my flat US game now than i've had since SO2
I try to stay as far as i can from chelts because the bends can be a bit of a pain and mess up some horses , i like to run on fair course like chepstow newbury.

Jim,

I simply mean you need to run your chasers over fences in game to get the best out of them. That’s it, does not save me time as such as I still go through the same routine game and trial.

My naming convention is the only thing that saves time. Horses named ‘National’ don’t run 2m hurdle trials. And ‘The’ horses are expected to fail at hurdlers also.

Josh