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 To Bar or Not to Bar 
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Post To Bar or Not to Bar
Thought it might be useful or indeed interesting for people to actually see what some of my NH horses look like, many of the league team have expired but the breeding will give you an indication of what some of the others looked like. And ignore the potential as these are the breeding versions so they are either old or never really raced properly. Most were exported at full potential, The Little Women and Spectacle of Monsters only got to around 97/98% realised. Judge Dredd fell short at about 98%

I guess these are not as impressive as people may have expected, and I echo there is more to NH breeding and training than just the bars.

Chasers:

The Little Women - three wins from three races. She is basically what most of my horses looked like before the bars were revealed, so 'The Sure Thing' also looked like this, The Mighty Mouse her sire had slightly better cruise but only around 5% or so from memory. My current breeding is now a lot better cruise is 50-55% now but yet to deliver at trial.

https://ibb.co/smwM4cv

The End of Time - One win, two places. She is basically a copy of 'The Mighty' though he had cruise of 55%, so does 'The High Lord' but from a different line. I have access to 60% now in this line but no trial sucess yet.

https://ibb.co/54GJmXp

The Ranger - One win at G3, he is my top 3m chaser right now. I also have access to 60% cruise in my 3m chase lines, the highest I have in this game, but none of the few I have bred pass the trials.

https://ibb.co/PrbJ7f2

The Sheppard - One win and one place and I think she is better than she has shown so far. Is what most of my trial chasers look like now.

https://ibb.co/mFt9r1c

National Faultline - One win and one place. National Apocalypse, her sire, had higher cruise at 55%

https://ibb.co/FDrH4vY

Hurdlers:

Spectacle of Monsters - One win at G2 so far, represents about the best looking 2m hurders I have in the league, though I do now have breeding horses with 55% cruise, highest I have in this line.

https://ibb.co/RBKyC4P

She Is Still Lost - Two wins from Two. Her sire 'Lost To The Horizon' had lower cruise and shared the same lack of finish application.

https://ibb.co/C5HjW9p

Fear Of The Clown - One place so far but the only example I have for my 2.4m range of hurdlers. Sire 'Emotional Pain' has 55% cruise again the highest in my hurdle lines right now.

https://ibb.co/wWn3V5z

Judge Dredd - One win this week, one place last. He represents the best of my 3m hurdlers least visually, the rest of the team are 50% cruise or less. He is also where the line is currently breeding. As luck would have it this is pretty much exactly what the league version looks like as it happens to be 8yo in breeding.

https://ibb.co/S6rLd0m

Be interesting to know what others are running in the league.

And sorry I am a bit of a retard when it comes to uploading images, cannot seem to get either dropbox or ibb to show the actual images.............?

Josh


Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:55 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
My NH horses are not that good, but I think this will probably end up being my best horse. Bred after bars became visible.

Image


Most of my horses look like this as they were mostly bred from horses in my stable before bars became visible.

Image


Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:42 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
That first guy needs to sort out his jumping. I would be breeding him with anything and everything that jumps well. The later looks better just need to tidy up the finish and try and squeeze the other main components, though again jumping ability would be my concern.


Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:08 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
This is a 2miler in my stud.

Image


This is in the stallion barn

Image

Its taking a long time to get through the seasons , only got through 6 seasons so far.

Josh its the BBCode full link on ibb site.


Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:40 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
Interesting those Josh. I'm currently running an experiment on my new jumps game. I've autoran 10 seasons, then the next 5-10 seasons I wont be trialling a single horse. I'm playing it with the sole intention of securing every bar I want. After that I plan to be all about the CK trials. I found from my flat games if you got the bars early, you can still find that hidden CK trait (I know it's not meant to exist). But if you go the other way, i.e breed to CK trait early, then try and find the bars it's much tougher the later into the game you get to find the bars. Of course I've played very little of the jumps so I can only use my flat experiences which could be way off

That Joe Packet looks like a freak John

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Vinny


Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:43 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
Quote:
This is in the stallion barn


Not found a single horse like that but I have four very similar looking breeding studs in my new NH game that have been built from the various parts. Not sorted out the fillies yet so I am not making the best of them yet, but the early versions trial badly against my main game.


Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:31 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
kniesh wrote:
Interesting those Josh. I'm currently running an experiment on my new jumps game. I've autoran 10 seasons, then the next 5-10 seasons I wont be trialling a single horse. I'm playing it with the sole intention of securing every bar I want. After that I plan to be all about the CK trials. I found from my flat games if you got the bars early, you can still find that hidden CK trait (I know it's not meant to exist). But if you go the other way, i.e breed to CK trait early, then try and find the bars it's much tougher the later into the game you get to find the bars. Of course I've played very little of the jumps so I can only use my flat experiences which could be way off

That Joe Packet looks like a freak John


I'm struggling at the moment because i've done so little breeding for a jumps game in two years that i've forgot whats best, my flat knowledge is of no help. :lol:

Image


The bars might look ok/good but it doesn't mean that much over jumps.

This horse looks ok but i ran him against my 2m4 best league horse and he's 15L behind, that will take forever to catch up. It will be interesting to see what Joes horses are like.


Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:28 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
I think a horses pedigree may have more to do with how a horse races.

While I always have a few winners in the NH, I don't think any of my horses have a long pedigree line of past winners, whereas in your case Josh, you will probably be breeding past league winning horses with past league winning horses.

Good bars are nice to have, but what percentage do they play in the performance of the horse compared to the pedigree of the horse in the NH.

I can't give any examples of my NH horses having a good pedigree but my horse that won the 2000 Guineas has 15 generations of breeding and 8 stallions who are past league winners in it's lineage (and that doesn't include winning mares as well), and only has average\good bars for a flat horse, 56% cruising burst and 87% extra speed, he did have 98% potential as a 3yo.


Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:41 am
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
Totally agree Jim. In my view there are two aspects to this, firstly run style, you need to consider the bars against the way the horse typically runs so a horse who holds up and comes late will need more speed and cruise than say a front runner and secondly lineage. So yes most of my horses have 25-30 generations of trial based breeding, often with injections of something new but yes usually I can trace a long line of trial or league success. It is also very common for me to breed two horses that look exactly the same and from broadly the same lineage, one will trial well the other will be tailed off 15 lengths behind and just about everything in between. There is usually no obvious reason for this, some just get it some don’t, but it has to be in the line at some point even if only the last generation and there are some horses who no matter what you do with them will never breed successful trial horses, this is sadly all to common for those monster game horses, I weed these out of my breeding every 3 or 4 seasons I have a cull.


Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:56 am
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
Quote:
Interesting those Josh. I'm currently running an experiment on my new jumps game. I've autoran 10 seasons, then the next 5-10 seasons I wont be trialling a single horse. I'm playing it with the sole intention of securing every bar I want. After that I plan to be all about the CK trials. I found from my flat games if you got the bars early, you can still find that hidden CK trait (I know it's not meant to exist). But if you go the other way, i.e breed to CK trait early, then try and find the bars it's much tougher the later into the game you get to find the bars. Of course I've played very little of the jumps so I can only use my flat experiences which could be way off


Also agree with most of this, I am doing exactly the same in a new NH game, but I don’t auto run, those ten seasons are more than enough to lose something you may have wanted. My game is ten seasons old now I shall link some of the stock i have accumulated later so you can see the process.

For me a new game start goes something like this.

1 - start with a horse who can consistently win races, does not matter what races, I did it with NHF races with a 5yo. They just need enough potential to win. Gamble heavily on this horse until you get around 10-15m. Build all the elements of the barn and start buying every game filly you can at auction.

2- breeding for money. Breed with every half decent game stud and keep buying fillies, sell the trash as an unraced 2yo, you can make 30-50m per year doing this and after which money is irrelevant.

3- refine the fillies and get rid of the trash start to bring the overall standard of your breeding fillies up you will have also hopefully by now identified game horses who have something you need. Buy everything but you will also by now have some idea of which horses might have something interesting.

4- continue to refine the fillies and start looking to get studs of your own that have the bits you want. All decent bred fillies go straight to the barn only run a few good looking colts either as potential future breeders and so you can stock check these in the ck, or just to have something else to do.

5- Rinse and repeat.

I am at stage 4 now, I have a pretty good bunch of studs, but my fillies are poor and there are still a few minor niggles I need to refine, things like ground preference, jumping potential, confidence and build etc. and eventually run style.

And none of this gives you an assurance of having a successful trial line. I have done this a few times before you will know by season 20ish if your onto something or not.


Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:14 am
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
That's almost identical to how I've started this game thankfully, except for the starting colt. I bought every horse at auctions, and checked their breeding colt stats to see if they had good bars. The biggest part of this is the end of season auctions in season 1. You get horses from all the top stallions then, so I buy them all an check them all. Very time consuming, but really helps the game long term I think. Then I just used the best ones of those, buying up every Filly I could to breed with them (so long as they have stats I want). Besides that it's the same. I'm currently on stage 3, the hard slog still going

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Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:58 am
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
Yep I always clear the screen at the end of year auctions in the first few years.


Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:24 am
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
I've got to admit u lot are more organized at breeding than me :D I like the chaos approach , i dont trail for a long time. The only thing i try to find is some front running stallions so even if they are not that good i can bring some of their babies along with me .


Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:49 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
I started a new jumps only save and didn't bother fully racing any horses through their careers in the first 10 seasons, I just kept sending the 3yo with the best looking bars to the barn. I never play jumps only saves, usually play a combined save.

This is the first horse I bred that looked good on paper.

Image



To see how he would mature I quickly skipped through the seasons giving the horse 5 races each season. I started with 5 x NHF, 5 x novice hurdles, 5 x novice chases. He is now 6yo and his potential bar has never moved. His grandsire was a gamebred 100% potential horse at 7yo.

Is this normal for a jumps only save?


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Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:21 pm
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Post Re: To Bar or Not to Bar
Yep. It will move when he is 7, but at best you will get 85-90% maybe one or two percent over 90 unrealised and 70-75% realised. Easier for me to tell from the 2yo version or the yearling.

This said there are some that age a little differently but the potential stop period is usually the same, his line will do much the same. I barely look at my horses after the original filter until they are 6. I cull at 7 as you will know then if they are going to make it, or rather have a chance too, some never do.

The simple rule of thumb for horses to make 100% is as a 2yo. 80% unrealised and 60% realised, really 65% to be sure, but the 60’s sometimes make it. Anything lower than will miss, least from my experience.


Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:38 pm
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