Think we did come to the general conclusion last discussion that gelding does not make much of a difference in SO4 so lets not get into a massive debate. Ive not gelded any horses and have still had two winners, i think it depends more on getting good bloodlines established through many years of breeding the best with the best.

I can’t believe this nonsense has been brought up again and blown out of proportion again. Why don’t those of you that believe gelding is making horses super horses actually try it, you’ll find there is no difference whatsoever and you can see that those of us that do it are old trainers that do it out of habit. Also if you look through the stables you’ll see some trainers that have gelded still haven’t performed.

The real issue here is that some newbies are using this gelding issue as an excuse for their own horses not performing but the simple fact is those trainers at the top will be at the top gelding or not. If this is such a big issue/excuse for some trainers then by all means change it for next season but I absolutely guarantee that the same top trainers will still be the same top trainers competing for honours as we’ll still be breeding from the same top horses, I wonder what the excuses will be then!

Of course we could bash on about those that use art money, writing results down and restarting for betting purposes to make more money, or about schedule altering, or those that took advantage of the two year old bug, god the list is endless but these are all just tactics adopted by trainers with an eye on the league in order to get the best horses they can, as quickly as they can, in order to compete.

The biggest reason most trainers do not perform is because they do not know how to play the game for league purposes. Do you really think that most top trainers actually play the game for fun? Do you think, having played Stable Masters and all four SO games, that top trainers get any joy in winning the Derby for the millionth time in the game? No is the answer to those questions, we play the game for the league as that is where the challenge and fun is for us, and in doing so we’ve all adopted tactics to get the best horses we can as quickly as possible, it’s this that some newbies can’t grasp. I’ve seen countless images of trainers showing their best group 1 winners having over 20+ wins and expecting great things from it in the league but I know immediately that trainers like this are newbies because you won’t find one consistently top league trainer playing like that. Now I’m not knocking this as new players would play the game for the enjoyment of it, just as we all did once, but playing for the league takes an entirely different approach.

I’ve noticed a lot of top trainers very rarely post on these boards anymore, if at all, and I don’t blame them. Whenever advice is given out people are quick to shoot them down in flames when all we’re trying to do is help new players, we were all new once and we all got murdered in our first season but those of us that asked questions and listened progressed. There is so much advice on the other board (http://gallopracerseries.yuku.com/directory) going back through the seasons that those willing to go through it will learn so much if they really want to.

Yes l agree the top trainers would still at the top as they are now. Its very nice to see some new trainers winning tho. I especially would like to see crazy Geld everything and never breed again as l feel its going to cost me a boat load of money paying out all the ante post bets on the trainer Championship

i agree with you crazyboy and im a newbie.

is it even worth racing horses in game at all? is it not just better to skip thruough months exporting them or do they need some game racing?

Yes you do need to race them but not much at all.

I agree with you as always on this issue CrazyBoy but!
I saw this thread come up and I said to myself oh no...not this issue again, but you know something, you talk about old trainers and their tricks or what ever you want to call it, I ask you, what happens in the near future when all the trainers start saying hey wait a minute, this league is not worth a pinch of shit all we see every week is 3 or 4 trainers dominating the league on a "permanent" basis they can keep their league, I ask you, what then, one thing for sure you 3 or 4 will be allowed to nominate more then 1 horse per race lol, do you see why these guys are not happy now CrazyBoy,

Now for me, I don't care much racing in the league, I'm only in it because I am bored out of my mind sometimes and love to chat to the people that I like and consider as my friends, so if my horses lose I smile and I say to the missus, well love!! I could have walked to the shop faster then this donkey lol,

And now we come to the JC Night closing, Mark should do something about all this because when the game stops in the future, the league will keep going and that will be his way of making his money so if this part of the game is faulty, well the league will end when the game stops been made, oh of course, did I forget to mention the 3 or 4 dominating trainers, well they'll still be dominating but over each other and no one else, so mark fix this in your next SO release so everyone will be happy.

there...I said my piece.

Nicely said Crazyboy but I think you missed the point or rather skirted round it.
It`s not the fact that the geldings might be winning races but that they go on to breed many other horses that really shouldn`t be there ( I would have to check this so the rest of this converation is mute if this is not the case).
Geldings cannot breed it`s as simple as that. Even `Art Money`or any other silly methods of gaining money cannot change this simple fact.
It may have become habit for old league trainers to geld every stallion to see if it performs better but this is no excuse! (Again I will state I have not checked to see if this is the case.)

I`m not on anyones case here but once a horse is gelded then true to nature and the game that`s the end of line. I just want to see the league in the same way. I would be just as pissed if someone uploaded a horse that had already run a season and hadn`t aged correctly and I think so far everyone involved has complied.

I don't see anything wrong with that. I think it's nice to have the top dogs and it gives everyone else something to strive for. When I first joined the league, Paidrag and Fuller were way ahead of everyone. It seemed their two horses were 1-2 in most races. The season before there was a trainer that was head and shoulders above the rest with iron races only.

Near the end of my second season there were two big 7f races and my entrants finished 2nd in both and they were sandwiched in between Paidrag and Fuller's horses. Granted those two went on to contest most every race that day but for two races, I felt like I was running and competing with the big dogs.

The next season Crazy, Esa, and JPB started to join the elite group at the top. Those three and some others are part of the top right now. But only right now. Cheers to them as I feel they have all put in the time and earned it. I would wager that there's a trainer in the middle to low end of the present rankings that will one day rise up and join the group at the top.

Bronco Don't get me wrong I really don't care who is on top of the chart mate, that is not what I was saying, all I was saying was that people will lose interest in the league that's all, then you will only have a hand full of trainers competing in the league the reasons being that some people just don't have the time to do the "Algebra" so to speak lol when it comes to playing the game they just want to play the game and if there is a horse in their game that's winning G1's they like to put it in the league you see those people get attached to their horses and they expect them to do something like run at least a placing not just run last every week,
Look, it's very simple mathematics Bronco, if you got a 5F horse at home that has won every group race, his or her time is 53 sec, then you see that horse run near last in the league to a horse that has won a 5F race running a time in 56 or 57 sec, I ask you, how can that be? don't make sense to me so it's not going to make sense to any of the others, there is a lot of flaws in the game that need to be rectified by mark in one big patch or in the next SO release.

Are you certain that the trial races are duplicated exactly when comparing trial times vs league times? Course and weight? I haven't heard much at all about big time differences and right now there is a small sample size with league times and SO4. Typically, the league times are superior. Of course, you'll occasionally get a hokey race in the league with a most every horse held-up but that's usually in longer distances where you'll might run faster at home with a pacesetter or two.

I agree that most all of us have been disappointed when our monsters fall flat in the league. That happens to most everyone, especially newer players. My original point was that it gives you something to strive for. I was glad the league was so difficult for me when I first entered. Initially disappointed but overall glad. I knew there was a challenge ahead of me if I wanted to improve and win some races.

HurricaneRun is a perfect example. He is brand new to the league and was excited as can be to see his horses run. From what I gather, his horses have not done well at all. Instead of getting frustrated, he's gathering as much info he can from more experienced players and now he's excited for the next upload window and next season. You have to walk before you can run. Every top trainer is there because they earned it. I will most likely never be a top trainer but the fun for me is trying and competing.

Ok Bronco I agree with your post to a certain degree though, I was talking about the times in the game not in the CK trials, there was a trainer going back a few years now was called thoughts & expression, I think he was the leagues president back then too, anyways he had this 1m grey filly that was truely a champion the name of the horse is "Gentle Response" now this filly won every 1m race that she was in, in the league at the time, but ran her races in slow times, well, there was more then a few trainers at the time that wanted to ask questions about it, why for example my 1m horse runs faster time in my game yet the champion grey was winning in the league, they got told at the time that they made their pionts and to appologise and move on, one of those trainers if I'm not mistaken is westy,
now Teejay has covered it all in a few lines in this thread http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=3306 please read it as it's very interesting I sure do hope mark reads it, I'm sure he would have to do something about it in the up and coming SO release, you see bronco, the idea is not to please a hand full of players, but to please 80% of players and the hand full can adapt but you can't keep asking the 80% of players to keep adapting, it' takes 10 litres of milk to make 1litre of cream, I would rather keep the 10 litres of milk then have 1litre of cream, but thats me, I love my milk

As a struggling newbie I agree with crazy, and like hurricane I’m just trying to pick up as many tips as I can in order to improve rather than trying to find excuses for doing poorly, it’s like anything else in life you get out of it what you put into it, at the end of the day if your horses are good enough they’ll win if they aren’t they won’t, it’s that simple. Mine aren't but I'm not going to give up.

Ultimately the league is supposed to be fun and I think there are too many people getting upset about this and that for no reason, it sounds more like sour grapes than anything else and I think it's spoiling it. I think people should stop taking it so seriously and just enjoy it for what it is.

Yes I’m expecting to get flamed!

Having said all the above I'm still interested to know what this is though

LOL. I cannot believe the issue has arisen once again. Funnily enough I have stopped gelding because as I have said in the past it was just habit. The last 8-10 seasons I have done no gelding has taken place. I do agree its very unrealistic with regards to breeding etc and this is why I have stopped doing it.

For anyone who believes it improves horse just put your name here and I will send you some screenshots that will shoot you down and make you look VERY SILLY.

I agree with this. I would like to see something put in place. I don't mind checking them all. I am race steward after all. From now on I will monitor this. If I see any duplicates it will be brought to the attention of our President Colm O'Dea.