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| Author: | leonvr [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Handicap races |
There are numerous horses entered in races they are not eligible for ( Handicap ratings to low or high for the race). Are the rules going to be changed or will these horses be scratched. Maybe if there are not enough runners for the 81-95 races then the highest 16 or 20 rated horses should get into the race or anything below a rating of 81 should run as if out of the handicap. Not sure if this can be done though Could you let us know what will happen as I would rather enter a 79 rated horse in 81-95 race and not a 65-80 race. Edit. I have entered two of my horses Magic User (The Lincoln) and Botticelli ( race 15) in 81-95 races and their ratings are too low. Am happy for them to run from out of the handicap if this is possible and if there aren't enough runners |
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| Author: | 17days [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
I think all the ratings for the flat are WRONG Leon. There are horses that were rated 80 something after week 1 and then they were rated 75 before week 2 races and now their ratings have changed again  This needs to be sorted out before we can nominate our horses. |
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| Author: | leonvr [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
I think thats because all the races in week 2 were run with horse handicap ratings of 75 and not the mark gained in week 1. So this has caused confusion. . Not sure what will happen now. NH is correct though. |
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| Author: | anubisrich [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
Yes, the horses had to be run at 75 for it to be fair given the change in handicapping situation. So really we have only one week of maidens which isn't ideal. Which is why the limits are a guide this week, not a rule. |
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| Author: | TysonM [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
So starting from week 4 will the handicap ratings be the rule? |
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| Author: | TysonM [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
TysonM wrote: So starting from week 4 will the handicap ratings be the rule? Bump. Anybody? |
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| Author: | TysonM [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
TysonM wrote: TysonM wrote: So starting from week 4 will the handicap ratings be the rule? Bump. Anybody? C'mon, seriously nobody can answer that. It's a pretty big part of the league. |
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| Author: | keithbeaky [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
Sorry, Tyson. Its under review. Personally I think the better horses are rated too low, but we will see how the first week of handicaps go and then Rich will make a decision from there. I think a few trainers are happy for Thunder to do the handicapping. |
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| Author: | pjrhodes1970 [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
i would be happy to see anyone do it even if they have a flat team in lge it would be beter than this the way it is now is awfull just look at this for an example 2 x 5f maiden horses same track & conditions horse A wins at 55.67 rated 81 horse B wins at 55.69 rated 85 i no in the above example it is my horse that is effected but its the only example i can come up with without doing a bit of research i no some placers in the maidens are rated 87+ and some winners as low as 80 just cant be right |
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| Author: | TysonM [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
Thanks mate. I'm happy for Thunder to do it as well if he's got the time |
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| Author: | keithbeaky [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
For me I think its worse that some horses have been beaten a long way in not one but TWO maidens and yet are only rated 13lbs less than some winners. That can not be right. A few of my best horses are at least 10, if not 20lbs, below what they should be. The two stayers I have are different class to last years who achieved ratings of 116 and 108 I think. The two this season are in the mid 80's  Come Free To Us demolished the horses she faced in week1, yet they are now rated higher than her after winning a maiden in week2
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| Author: | davylad [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
There is no way you will ever get correct ratings from just one or two runs whether it is done manually or left to the CK. Different courses different track conditions and just the plain fact that horses don't always run up to their best on every occasion means that if you run the race over and over you will get various results as most of you will know when doing your trials. Manually adjusting the ratings will never keep everyone happy and the weekly complaints and queries aimed at the handicapper will soon have him throwing in the towel. I admit the ratings thrown up by the CK are not perfect either but with a few more runs they should get more accurate, and remember if you think you have a few horses rated too high then you probably have a few that are rated too low. You win some you lose some, after all it is just a game, and a great one at that. |
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| Author: | keithbeaky [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
Well Scatters' horses are all about 20lbs below what they should be, and I'm sure he'd admit that. As are other top trainers. |
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| Author: | davylad [ Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
keithbeaky wrote: Well Scatters' horses are all about 20lbs below what they should be, and I'm sure he'd admit that. As are other top trainers. That may well be but I think they will have there eyes on the group races rather than the handicaps, I know I will. |
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| Author: | Scatters [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Handicap races |
One solution to the rating problem is to race the horses in the kit before the season begins. What I mean is this, when you upload your horses you have to nominate an optimal race distance. Why not then race the horses in the race kit 3 or 4 times so that the kit can average out the horse ratings? The kit can do this. Once this is done the ratings are uploaded before the season starts and you can enter maidens at the optimum distance or 2f either side. The ck is actually good but not perfect at giving out ratings. It's the initial values that can be a bit dodgy. But since you run them in the kit serveral times before the season this will eliminate that. You can then use the ck to do the ratings and no handicapper for the rest of the season. These are the conditions I propose: 1. Use track condition of Good only without any wind factor. 2. Use Royal Ascot or other straight track only. But once the decision is made on the track stick to it. Some might argue that other horses are better than others at certain tracks and this is true. But in real life everything is a mystery and we don't even know how horses perform in the wet untill they do etc. 3. For distances greater than 8f as mentioned above run the race several times to get the best average. By this I mean retain the ratings and and race again etc. It will work, just needs a little effort before the season starts. I'm willing to help here Rich and I can do it now. Just give me the go ahead. Your thoughts? Cheers all. |
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