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SuperCat wrote:

None of the group/graded winners would have been under the influence, if they were then we have a bigger problem within racing than anybody could comprehend. All winners of graded races get tested, plus they do random testing on random runners there are so many Godolphin runners there is no way that some of them weren't tested. That's how he was caught in the first place. Speculation that Encke and Monterosso were on steroids at the time is ridiculous because they can't have been, Dubai supposedly upholds the same doping rules to over here, though we all know what Dubai is like.

What PJ said is interesting, I've been trying to work out why you'd give those kinds of steroids to a 2yo filly. But if she was small and not developing then that would be why, it's awful but that would be the reason.

No horse should be allowed to race with drugs in it's system, the practice is cruel, unethical and unfair.

Frankel2012 wrote:

Maybe including Encke and Monterosso? Wondered about the sudden improvement. Would be catastrophic if Encke only stopped Camelot winning triple crown cos he was on steroids

Ubar02 wrote:

Yes he jumped ship at the right time.
My pint is that as these drugs clear the sytem after a month, they can be administered up to a month before the race and there the chance they won't e found. On the two occasions previously he'd got caught becuase he'd left it too late. I think maybe not encke, you'd hope not, but there is a very real probability that monterosso was on them in dubai, it's all funded by the sheikh so they wouldn't catch themselves, and that would explain his subsequent lengthy absence and poor form.

Frankel2012 wrote:

For an organization of that size you expect them to be quite dominant and that has completely not been the case. They have struggled to get big race wins and have had to watch Juddmonte and Coolmore take all the glory. They have been struggling for a number of years so this is no accident, they knew what they were doing as far as im concerned. Whatever Zarooni says cant cover up what he has done and he shouldnt be in the game in the first place if he doesnt know the rules and regulations. Even if it is a mistake then why hasnt he asked someone to clarify if what he was doing was acceptable. Agree with Ubar, I have a feeling he has been told to cos i cant believe he would go behind the Sheikhs back also. He wouldnt dare and if he has then he can never train again so we will see

Author:	Ubar02 [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
You have to suspect monterosso definitely, ran in dubai extremely well where godolphin are most powerful , so if he had been on drugs it may have been hidden, and then didn't reappear for a while in he uk, probably to let the traces of drugs dissipate and them ran badly because he'd not been on them for a while, a definite possibility.

Author:	ghostzapper74 [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
How long would these roid's have been detectable for???? I think he should be banned as long as trainer's who are caught stopping horses, cheating is cheating and he should get 10years. And they should give the Mighty Sheikh a warning to. If u want to give u horses some Mad S*** , go to the US where anything goes. Instead of giving his horses drugs perhaps he should be breeding better horses.

Author:	Frankel2012 [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Horse running on friday for Godolphin and Zarooni at Sandown called controversy

Author:	Ubar02 [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
These drugs can be gone in a month. He should be given a life ban, and I'll bet the sheikh could have been involved, it's interesting it's zaroonis and not bin suroor, he's definitely favoured zaroonis and probably wanted him to do better, I'll bet when colour vision won the gold cup he was furious.

Author:	SuperCat [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
None of the group/graded winners would have been under the influence, if they were then we have a bigger problem within racing than anybody could comprehend. All winners of graded races get tested, plus they do random testing on random runners there are so many Godolphin runners there is no way that some of them weren't tested. That's how he was caught in the first place. Speculation that Encke and Monterosso were on steroids at the time is ridiculous because they can't have been, Dubai supposedly upholds the same doping rules to over here, though we all know what Dubai is like. What PJ said is interesting, I've been trying to work out why you'd give those kinds of steroids to a 2yo filly. But if she was small and not developing then that would be why, it's awful but that would be the reason. No horse should be allowed to race with drugs in it's system, the practice is cruel, unethical and unfair.

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Al Zarooni To Lose Licence https://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7997	Page 2 of 3

Author:	ghostzapper74 [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
SuperCat wrote: None of the group/graded winners would have been under the influence, if they were then we have a bigger problem within racing than anybody could comprehend. All winners of graded races get tested, plus they do random testing on random runners there are so many Godolphin runners there is no way that some of them weren't tested. That's how he was caught in the first place. Speculation that Encke and Monterosso were on steroids at the time is ridiculous because they can't have been, Dubai supposedly upholds the same doping rules to over here, though we all know what Dubai is like. What PJ said is interesting, I've been trying to work out why you'd give those kinds of steroids to a 2yo filly. But if she was small and not developing then that would be why, it's awful but that would be the reason. No horse should be allowed to race with drugs in it's system, the practice is cruel, unethical and unfair. The problem Is that if those horses were on drugs in Dubai there is no chance that they would do anything about it( it would go straight under the carpet), he is The Sheikh. Now we know why he was getting better results than bin suroor. I wonder what dettori thinks of all of this. What goes around comes around.

Author:	Ubar02 [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Yes he jumped ship at the right time. My pint is that as these drugs clear the sytem after a month, they can be administered up to a month before the race and there the chance they won't e found. On the two occasions previously he'd got caught becuase he'd left it too late. I think maybe not encke, you'd hope not, but there is a very real probability that monterosso was on them in dubai, it's all funded by the sheikh so they wouldn't catch themselves, and that would explain his subsequent lengthy absence and poor form.

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Frankel2012 wrote: Maybe including Encke and Monterosso? Wondered about the sudden improvement. Would be catastrophic if Encke only stopped Camelot winning triple crown cos he was on steroids this would be a travesty

Author:	pjrhodes1970 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Ubar02 wrote: Yes he jumped ship at the right time. My pint is that as these drugs clear the sytem after a month, they can be administered up to a month before the race and there the chance they won't e found. On the two occasions previously he'd got caught becuase he'd left it too late. I think maybe not encke, you'd hope not, but there is a very real probability that monterosso was on them in dubai, it's all funded by the sheikh so they wouldn't catch themselves, and that would explain his subsequent lengthy absence and poor form. you begin to wonder was this the situation that made Frankie go off the rails you can imagine this would be hard to deal with for Frankie if he knew

Author:	taurus [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
I think its pure speculation to say weather his winners ie monstrosso,encke, etc were on steroids,this may have been a one off,maybe not,frankie has dabbled in drugs well before any of this happened too.

Author:	Ubar02 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
I think the credibility of dubai racing is at a risk here, surely te sheikh had been involved in some way, zaroonis wouldn't dare do anything without his permission. An also if it is just zaroonis, those rides were mainly barzalonas. Zaroonis has also admitted to a further four horses so whole thing looks very suspicious. If of the 15 horses in a stable of 200 teu got 11, survey tey were tipped off or targeted certain horses, what were the chances of a sample of 1/4 of the horses containing over 2/3 of the horses. And why is e admitting so freely?

Author:	Frankel2012 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
For an organization of that size you expect them to be quite dominant and that has completely not been the case. They have struggled to get big race wins and have had to watch Juddmonte and Coolmore take all the glory. They have been struggling for a number of years so this is no accident, they knew what they were doing as far as im concerned. Whatever Zarooni says cant cover up what he has done and he shouldnt be in the game in the first place if he doesnt know the rules and regulations. Even if it is a mistake then why hasnt he asked someone to clarify if what he was doing was acceptable. Agree with Ubar, I have a feeling he has been told to cos i cant believe he would go behind the Sheikhs back also. He wouldnt dare and if he has then he can never train again so we will see

Author:	SuperCat [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Sheikh M. ships in a team of international vets for the Carnival and he claims to run racing in Dubai with the same stringent rules as over here, so it is unlikely that any of his horses would have been able to run under the influence. But we never know, a man with that much power and influence could and can do anything anytime. Steroids are quite quickly broken down by the body and their effects do not last that long and one can build up an immunity, particularly to anabolic steroids; hence why body builders end up taking so many. So I still think it is highly unlikely that any of the runners would have run under the influence. Due to the way that anabolic steroids work they are broken down very quickly and their effects can wear off just as quickly, but I'm not an expert so I can't say for sure. Catabolic steroids will stay in the system for much longer, but you wouldn't use those on a horse in training.

Author:	SuperCat [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Frankel2012 wrote: For an organization of that size you expect them to be quite dominant and that has completely not been the case. They have struggled to get big race wins and have had to watch Juddmonte and Coolmore take all the glory. They have been struggling for a number of years so this is no accident, they knew what they were doing as far as im concerned. Whatever Zarooni says cant cover up what he has done and he shouldnt be in the game in the first place if he doesnt know the rules and regulations. Even if it is a mistake then why hasnt he asked someone to clarify if what he was doing was acceptable. Agree with Ubar, I have a feeling he has been told to cos i cant believe he would go behind the Sheikhs back also. He wouldnt dare and if he has then he can never train again so we will see This is the point I made a little further up the thread. WHY is he training for Sheikh M. if he doesn't know the rules... I find it hard to believe that Sheikh M. isn't in on this, but it will be tough to pin something like this on him. With the way that the UAE is run Zarooni is probably too scared to tell the truth, and I don't blame him. It will be very interesting to see how this develops.

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Author:	Frankel2012 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Al Zarooni To Lose Licence
Has to lose his licence surely as he is out of his depth and doesnt know what he is doing. Came from nowhere and was a strange appointment by Godolphin in the first place. He would be more successful spreading his horses out to better more accomplished trainers. All they do now is buy all the best horses from other yards to try and compete anyway. Just dont like them and never have.