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 A bit baffled. 
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Selling plater

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Post A bit baffled.
Going to start this off with saying: I'm not sure if this is the right place to be posting this, but :?

I've been playing since S05, and would consider myself a casual player, so no league breeding in that regard. After scrolling through some of the threads regarding the topic I've kind of gleaned what I can about the new system and such, and went about my business playing (currently 30 years in to my file). I understand that the new system made breeding a little less static, and added some more variables to make it a bit more realistic, which I can totally appreciate.

However, I've been breeding for some time now and, for the life of me, absolutely cannot understand what I am supposed to be doing to breed a higher grade foal. I've read that the visible stats don't necessarily reflect the absolute grade of horse you have, but I am at a wits end. I've been breeding good mares (grade winners, high rated, good visible stats to back it up) with high caliber stallions (grade 1 winners, good times, presumed good stats based on records) and have been breeding absolute donkeys, heck I think they might be zebras at this point I don't even know.

In the span of the in game time, I have bred exactly 1 horse that has been able to consistently sweep his g1 races. One. And the foals he produces don't reflect that quality, even when bred to good mares.

Now, I'm not saying this to gripe or whatever, things change and I'm cool with that, but I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I don't know where to begin to look to try and improve what I am doing, as a casual player. The prices in the sales are all over the place, the few graded runners I've picked up at auction are quite frankly horrid, and the stud fees are all over the place, and the AI doesn't bother with using your studs (which I don't quite understand, since the stud farm is a new feature, and seemingly the whole point to it).

I feel like I'm getting a ton of mixed signals for what to look at, and when I think I've gotten a bit of a lead, it gets turned on its head and I'm back at square one. Which is a bit frustrating at this point. Is there any help or advice or things that have been discussed (that I haven't managed to find) that would remedy this? Am I missing some new, super obvious thing that was implemented?


Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:11 pm
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:57 pm
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
I was wondering when this would start to show. The stats the game calculates for stud production (AI and yours) are not very good ones statistically. And even the ones that are close are not sortable properly. I did a post a while back in the beta forum on that (I have bred TBs in real life).

Fixing the ones he has would not be hard, and adding the better one would be even better. I think I will go bump that post, as when I first put it up he was still chasing crashes, and polishing the stud table stats would not have been high priority.

The more serious game breeders usually get their own studs quickly and have their own methods to improve each season. Some go bar by bar, others cross complementary bars. All that assumes you've already got the best studs in your barn. But the AI breeding makes me hope it may still pop out studs that are competitive for more years into the game. I've tried breeding mostly off AI studs, and calculated the proper stats every year, and did better than after I stopped doing that work.


Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:12 am
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
kings wrote:
Going to start this off with saying: I'm not sure if this is the right place to be posting this, but :?

I've been playing since S05, and would consider myself a casual player, so no league breeding in that regard. After scrolling through some of the threads regarding the topic I've kind of gleaned what I can about the new system and such, and went about my business playing (currently 30 years in to my file). I understand that the new system made breeding a little less static, and added some more variables to make it a bit more realistic, which I can totally appreciate.

However, I've been breeding for some time now and, for the life of me, absolutely cannot understand what I am supposed to be doing to breed a higher grade foal. I've read that the visible stats don't necessarily reflect the absolute grade of horse you have, but I am at a wits end. I've been breeding good mares (grade winners, high rated, good visible stats to back it up) with high caliber stallions (grade 1 winners, good times, presumed good stats based on records) and have been breeding absolute donkeys, heck I think they might be zebras at this point I don't even know.

In the span of the in game time, I have bred exactly 1 horse that has been able to consistently sweep his g1 races. One. And the foals he produces don't reflect that quality, even when bred to good mares.

Now, I'm not saying this to gripe or whatever, things change and I'm cool with that, but I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I don't know where to begin to look to try and improve what I am doing, as a casual player. The prices in the sales are all over the place, the few graded runners I've picked up at auction are quite frankly horrid, and the stud fees are all over the place, and the AI doesn't bother with using your studs (which I don't quite understand, since the stud farm is a new feature, and seemingly the whole point to it).

I feel like I'm getting a ton of mixed signals for what to look at, and when I think I've gotten a bit of a lead, it gets turned on its head and I'm back at square one. Which is a bit frustrating at this point. Is there any help or advice or things that have been discussed (that I haven't managed to find) that would remedy this? Am I missing some new, super obvious thing that was implemented?


I don't really know about some of the stuff because I've not played enough but I'm a few season in with my game and the AI will use u breeding barn more and more the better u stallions are at stud , the more u stallions win group races at stud the more horses they send u and far better ones as well.


Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:22 am
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
Yeah I started out trying to pick broods with good stats, and happened upon one mare that had close to a 60% battling quality stat, and used her as my main brood to see how the new 'genetics' work. Its been interesting seeing how it passes (shes had about 3-4 generations out of her) and my current best runner is from that line, however that stat did not pass down it him. From what I have noticed, specifically with the battling quality stat, is that it will never be higher than the highest BC stat in the breeding; so if you breed an above average 60% to a regular 10% stat, the resulting foal can never have higher than 60%, and quite often it is rare to see the full 60% pass. I've also been finding it insanely difficult to even find another horse with a high BC stat, which I find really odd? But after a while of trying to nit pick stats and all of that, I just kind of gave up, because it seems like its a big waste of time. Most of the G1 mares I've picked up have really so-so stats.

What I'm really getting tired of is having to grind out maiden/low stakes races because as 2yos they are horrible (like sub 50 rating for whatever reason) and then suddenly as 3yos just start running well enough to win c3s. And it feels super hit or miss too; sometimes they will win a c2 or c1 and then always be "outclassed" every other time they run, even though they won against good company. Or alternatively I have high graded runners (90s) that cannot win a C3, but I have graded runners that get demolished when I enter in 110-120 stakes? And I am talking across 20 foals each season, I usually only keep 2 or 3 tops. I don't mind spending time on the game and I do enjoy a good challenge (and reward) for hard work, but this feels borderline arbitrary in terms of time spent vs. results.

For some context this is my g1 stud I was talking about; I am using the vanilla schedule. When he was running he had a capped speed stat, and has produced offspring with capped speed as well, so I don't understand why it dropped when he was retired.

Image
Image

and this is how he ranks against he other studs (has been about the same for his entire length at stud so far):

Image

(this was sorted by fee so I could get him and the other top stud in the same shot)
Image

I find it really strange that the AI would choose a stud farm that has more horses over one that has good horses, regardless of number. He was in the top 5 grouping of milers while he was running, and not once has the AI tried breeding. I even let the game decide his stud fee, which seems on the low side? So I am kind of confused what metric the game is using to generate that, and how the AI is deciding what to choose over something else. They will happily choose the very expensive studs, studs that have less runs/wins, and studs that have no progeny/progeny that has only won stakes.


Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:59 pm
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
Yeah, well the AI is calculating the stud stats wrong. I did redo and bump my post in the beta subforum. So, I think that makes it hard to pick horses, probably for it and us.

On some various things:

Battle Stat. just so. That is how it works, I find it gravy but hard to start a line to maintain it since it diminishes so fast.

Potential and Speed (and Cruise Burst): As a horse ages, the visible UI of these bars first expands, then shrinks to match the horses maturity peak. For breeding, the real, if fully maxed potential, cb and speed bars should still be there, and pass on. So it can be hard when buying an older stud to know what the underlying bars are, but if you raced him 2-5 (not seen them go up at 6, but unsure if a jumps game), you will have seen the max of the hidden bar. Also, you may not see the full bar on the offspring, until it is at its peak maturity age.

There is another hidden stat, which is age for peak maturity. You can see the field if you edit a legend. This controls the growing and shrinking of the visible bars and the performance. If your foals run badly at 2, and 3, they may be from a line that peaks at 4 or 5. Either accept that, or look for AI horses to buy or breed to that were absolutely brilliant when raced as 2 yr olds.

Here is my #1 earner of all times (AI horse not mine!) in my most recent game where the AI has had several generations to breed. I watched it run with mild amusement.

Image

She didn't start at all as a 2 yr old, and couldn't win a race at 3. But the maturity kicked in at 4 and age 4, 5 and 6 were amazing. This is not a horse you want to fix late maturing lines, but does show the effect of the hidden maturity stat well. She was a beast when it kicked in. Sadly, other than one half-brother, everything in her near family as a mare that is still in game.

This is a mare I picked up at auction. Her first foal to race at 2, placed second in first try at maiden. Broke maiden second start, won a G2 third start, placed in a listed race 4th start and was second in a foreign G1 on the fifth and last start at 2. So she passed the hidden maturity at 2 stat to that foal at least.

Image

So that is the type of race record to look for in mares or studs to try and find ones that mature early. Two may be too fast, if they drop off so much before the good races at 3. But you can't see that stat.

Hopefully this all helps some.


Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:53 pm
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
Bred two 90% horses (both owned by me) together, and got a 20% potential foal. Okay, not great but randomness isn't a bad thing as long as it's not completley random - let's go again. Second year of breeding them and . . . 35% potential. Okay another pair of 90% potentials . . . 15% foal.

Three different sires, three different dams, each bred to each five times, the highest potential bar was 70% and that didn't fill until they were 7yo. I've had better success in my other game where I've had a few breed true, but the overwhelming majority just seem to be garbage - the worst scenario being two 100% finish applications producing a 0%.

All for a less predictable breeding program, but it just seems way too random right now. I can't even judge who to breed between my own horses let alone taking a chance on a game bred as most of the 10x G1 winners seem to produce poor foals as well.

It's taking the shine of an otherwise solid game for me honestly. :(

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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:09 am
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
ChrisOrmie wrote:
Bred two 90% horses (both owned by me) together, and got a 20% potential foal. Okay, not great but randomness isn't a bad thing as long as it's not completley random - let's go again. Second year of breeding them and . . . 35% potential. Okay another pair of 90% potentials . . . 15% foal.

Three different sires, three different dams, each bred to each five times, the highest potential bar was 70% and that didn't fill until they were 7yo. I've had better success in my other game where I've had a few breed true, but the overwhelming majority just seem to be garbage - the worst scenario being two 100% finish applications producing a 0%.

All for a less predictable breeding program, but it just seems way too random right now. I can't even judge who to breed between my own horses let alone taking a chance on a game bred as most of the 10x G1 winners seem to produce poor foals as well.

It's taking the shine of an otherwise solid game for me honestly. :(

Flipside of this is I'm finding decent yearlings at the save to help offset the difference, and a few breeding mares also with good stats (if only that had more bearing on the foals).

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Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:11 am
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
Just curious, both kinds and ChrisOrmie, what difficulty setting are you on?

I tested hard, and am now testing on normal. I tend to play slowly so the game will probably be out before I could test all three settings thoroughly. ;) My screen shots in this thread are from my normal run.


Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:00 am
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
I run on easy/normal, the screenshots were from easy I believe.


Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:36 am
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Post Re: A bit baffled.
Hechicera wrote:
Just curious, both kinds and ChrisOrmie, what difficulty setting are you on?

I tested hard, and am now testing on normal. I tend to play slowly so the game will probably be out before I could test all three settings thoroughly. ;) My screen shots in this thread are from my normal run.


I've played 5 games (min 1 season played) so far with easy and normal on patch 1.03, normal & hard for 1.04, and a new one on 1.05 normal. Each has similar breeding issues and have had successes in sales in each. Restarted a bunch of other games to see if I could get better starting horses, or failed betting the start money, etc . . . but the ones that I've tried the breeding and sales aspects on are the listed.

Had one in the opening few days of the save that I misclicked to sell a star 2yo earlier, so went to revert to the backup save but misclicked again and wiped it from the disk so that sucked. I'll be playing through a few seasons on 1.05 hard mode tonight and tomorrow to see how that looks for breeding and sales but so far my favourite has been on normal - a good mix of unpredictability but still getting some improvements each year. I just wish I didn't have to breed my best horses 3-4 times before getting stats that seemed similar to SO6 yearlings.

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