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 Training Jumpers 
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Post Training Jumpers
Hello, I've been running a UK game for awhile now and am trying to raise decent jumpers, without success. Is there a way to help them get better jumping stats without doing manual training? I've saved a couple back that have 2m as their optimum "jump" distance, and I was not planning to run them as flat at all so they can start in NH Flat races on the jump circuit when they are a year older, then ease them into actual hurdling. Ideas? Thoughts?


Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
I wonder if running gallops could help?


Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:20 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Does anyone know if jumping stats slowly get better on their own if you are on the auto-training mode, or otherwise?


Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:49 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
also< is there somewhere it's listed the ratings diffs between hurdles and chases? Sorry for the dumb questions...


Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Anyone, please?


Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:30 pm
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Handicapper

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Location: Fife, Scotland
Post Re: Training Jumpers
I don't think jumping ability is all that important.

I only run league games on automatic training and have won multiple G1 races with horses that have limited jumping ability. My hurdlers usually have 10% or less ability and my chasers have a maximum of 20% ability.

I find that most of my horses improve their jumping ability as they get older. Maybe something to do with experience\number of races they run in.

I start all my 4yo horses in NH flat races, at 5yo they run in Novice hurdles races, 6yo in Novice chases. At 7yo G1 hurdles and 8yo G1 chases. In my NH save, horses usually peak at 8yo.

I rarely have a horse that does not unseat its jockey at least once a season. It's the randomness built into the game.


Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:02 am
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Thank you!


Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Hi Jim

Very interesting on the jumping ability/potential, do you just ignore it completely and focus on the other bars?

Regarding the route which your horses take, do the horses get the potential increase even when you do not run them until they are 4?

Normally i thought it was best to run them 3 times at each age, as this brings up their potential amongst other stats... or am i mistaken.

I was running them 3 times at 2 & 3 on the flat, then juvenile hurdles 4/5, novice chase 5/6, group hurdles 6/7 and group chasing 7/8 - i say that as i am running start it and a full 12 month cycle

I am only starting into the national hunt for the league and by god it takes a long time to have anything worthwhile trialing. So any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Connor


Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:42 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
CDJ LIggett wrote:
Hi Jim

Very interesting on the jumping ability/potential, do you just ignore it completely and focus on the other bars?

Regarding the route which your horses take, do the horses get the potential increase even when you do not run them until they are 4?

Normally i thought it was best to run them 3 times at each age, as this brings up their potential amongst other stats... or am i mistaken.

I was running them 3 times at 2 & 3 on the flat, then juvenile hurdles 4/5, novice chase 5/6, group hurdles 6/7 and group chasing 7/8 - i say that as i am running start it and a full 12 month cycle

I am only starting into the national hunt for the league and by god it takes a long time to have anything worthwhile trialing. So any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Connor



I never pay much attention to the jumping ability bar, it's how the horse performs in CK trials that is important.

The age you run horses all depends on your schedule. I have never used Start It so can't speak about that schedule but when I use a combined schedule I do something similiar to what you described above. Flat races at 2 & 3yo and fences from 4up.

The stuff I spoke about above was for a NH only schedule and there are no flat races in it so that is why I start off with 4yo in NH flat races.

I find that 4/5 races a season gives the best performance increase in my horses.

My personnal preference is to use a combined game for breeding NH horses so it's flat races at 2 & 3yo and fences from 4up.

I have had success in the league with my NH horses who have had only 10 - 20% jumping ability but now that green bars are viewable I am not sure how my horses will go. This is a 2m chaser from a combined game I have just uploaded to the league. Even though he is a Chaser, he has minimal jumping ability. He does well in the CK trials but will have to wait and see about the League. I found it too complicated to get top quality horses in both codes from only one combined save, so I have 3 saves on the go, a combined for breeding NH only and two 6 month long saves, one flat only and the other NH only save.

I posted something a few weeks ago about how to get good horses for the league.

http://www.startersorders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=20820


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Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:24 am
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Can one breed Potential up to how your screenshot horse has when starting with bloodlines with only about 75 to 80 Potential? I basically only keep broodmares with at least a 75 in it, but was unsure how to raise that bar from that point, even with great pairings.


Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:12 am
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
hyperstork wrote:
Can one breed Potential up to how your screenshot horse has when starting with bloodlines with only about 75 to 80 Potential? I basically only keep broodmares with at least a 75 in it, but was unsure how to raise that bar from that point, even with great pairings.



The only way I know to significantly raise the potential is to breed with Gamebred horses. The problem is finding those Gamebreds. It's easier in league mode as you can see the bars of gamebred stallions once they have sired a foal, (see the link I posted above). In the standard game it is simply trial and error to find gamebreds with good potential.

If you are running a non-league save, the best thing to do is make a copy of your save, and do a little "cheating" or manipulation is a better term.

For instance, if you have say 100 mares in the barn, breed 5 mares with the best 20 gamebred stallions. Quickly advance your game to the end of the season. Save the game away. Now turn the season over and look at the foals. You should be able to see if any of the foals have a greater potential than normal. Take a note of the gamebred stallion that sired these good foals. If there are no good foals. Try reloading the save and turning the season again. If still no luck, choose another 20 gamebred stallions and repeat the process.


Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Yeah, I was hoping there would be a chance of breeding, say, two 75 Potential horses and get an 80 as a result on occasion. Is that possible?

I am hampering myself somewhat as I don't look at stats unless they are ultra-sucking in their first few races (to see if I should even bother continuing with them), or when they retire. I even have played with the graphics and blocked off the stats graph on the side so I can't "sneak a peek" at their Potential and most of the other stats.


Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:32 am
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
hyperstork wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping there would be a chance of breeding, say, two 75 Potential horses and get an 80 as a result on occasion. Is that possible?

I am hampering myself somewhat as I don't look at stats unless they are ultra-sucking in their first few races (to see if I should even bother continuing with them), or when they retire. I even have played with the graphics and blocked off the stats graph on the side so I can't "sneak a peek" at their Potential and most of the other stats.



I have seen a potential jump with two similiar horses but if I was giving odds, 10,000/1


SO7 is so random with its breeding that it is almost impossible to have success unless you look at the bars, especially - potential, cruising burst and extra speed.


Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:13 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
hyperstork wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping there would be a chance of breeding, say, two 75 Potential horses and get an 80 as a result on occasion. Is that possible?

I am hampering myself somewhat as I don't look at stats unless they are ultra-sucking in their first few races (to see if I should even bother continuing with them), or when they retire. I even have played with the graphics and blocked off the stats graph on the side so I can't "sneak a peek" at their Potential and most of the other stats.


If you go into the legends editor it will give you a far better idea of how the stats and ratings are generated.

Simply open the editor and select one of the legends. Then you can see a breakdown of all its attributes.

You will notice that every horse starts off with a base ability from which all the other stats will be generated.

This base ability is generated randomly and the base then uses the stats of the parents combined with the base to generate the rest.

This is why in SO7 you can breed two horses with the same parents and they will have totally different bars and abilities. No longer clones as in the past.

This is also why breeding two horses with 100% potential can give you a foal with only 10% as its randomly generated base may have been low.

Some of the bars are 0=1000 whereas others are only 0-3.

This of course is replicated in the game as green/red bars and not by number so is harder to judge quickly

In the 0-1000 (potential I think) the increase in green bar will only be miniscule if the horse improves by only a few points.

Conversely the 0-3, which I think is finish application will see the green bar shoot up 25% for just 1 extra point.

Sounds confusing but will all make sense when you open it up.

It also shows you horse best distances, best time of year to race, favoured courses and optimum age for jumping amongst other things.

You can't put your own horses in there so it isn't an opportunity to cheat or manipulate the game but it can help you to understand how the bars increase and give you an idea of things to keep an eye on.

For example the Quirks bar is not an indication of how quirky your horse is but is telling you which quirk it has. You can only find this out by studying the legends editor.

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Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Training Jumpers
Hi,

I previously used Pauls method for trialing on the flat, however since I was trying to produce all distances in one game, i finished up really only having sprinters up to a mile and every horse in the CK stated 6f or 7f as there preferred distance. Initially i thought this was because the CK would put the best distance against that horse and since i was trialing as a 2 year old, it made sense that the majority were 5,6,7 as every two year old is a sprinter to begin with.

However, when i got the horses to their 3 year old year, the distances never updated and it still stated 6/7f. Now the first question - does it matter that the distance states this in the CK? or is it actually that my horses average best distance is the stated 6/7?

Further to this, the majority of my horses coming out of the trials which i kept to breed from going forward had about 75-85 extra speed and about 25 for cruising burst, which again and maybe i am wrong is generally the make up of a sprinter, whereas a longer distance horses i would expect higher cruising burst. Am i correct in this thinking?

Another question, will trialing at unraced 2 year old give those who are genuinely sprinters an advantage than a horse that is a middle distance? or am i thinking about it too realistically.

So after deciding to start a new game, i have found some lovely bars horses to breed from 75/80 cruising burst coupled with 75/80 extra speed and these when export to the CK are having even at 2 year of age ranging distances from 5 up to 1m6.

Now i started a national hunt game, entered a few horses in the league and they are useless to say the least, but i expected that after only a few years of breeding. So my new game i have decided to try and breed more specifically, i.e. i have detailed all the stats of the mares and the stallions and matching them where they are missing. 0 Finish application with 100 finish application. Sensible yes or no? as it takes so much more time to breed than just throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Trialing wise for national hunt how is it recommended?


Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:04 pm
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