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 Stallions 
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Handicapper

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:59 pm
Posts: 453
Post Re: Stallions
qwsa wrote:
Thats just simply not true. In the game, with a large enough pool you can get a similar number of yearlings produced each year as there are in real life. In real life the top stallions produce in some cases upwards of 100 yearlings a year, yet there are still a lot of stallions of different qualities.

The full spectrum would easily be covered because the mares in breeding would be different, and the top sires are not all horses with the same ideal distances. Also, new sires will produce good offspring and begin producing more foals.

I'm simply suggesting that the number of stallions in the game could be reduced and the number of days mating takes so that it would allow stallions to have more offspring a year than they currently are, and prevent horses that shouldnt really be at stud from being so.

U are miles away because after all those mares that got breed to those top class horses a few times would all catch up with the stallions.


Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:39 pm
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 3:50 pm
Posts: 940
Post Re: Stallions
Yes, thats what is supposed to happen, new stallions rise to the top of the stallion ranks, ultimately replacing older stallions that are ageing, thats exactly what happens in real life and is supposed to happen, its the purpose of breeding in horse racing to produce new top stallions as much as it is to produce top class horses on the track.

It does kind of feel like you are attacking any suggestions I am making for the sake of doing so.


Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:04 pm
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Handicapper

Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:57 pm
Posts: 353
Post Re: Stallions
There are two other reasons for the larger (real life) stallion pool. Both are why live cover is still required in the breed. And it is intentional.

(long boring part)

First is economic. One large stud can get a monopoly on high quality now. But, regional farms with 1-2 studs or part-time racing studs (Stud stand for sport and racing mares) are good boost to local economies. Forcing live cover forces there to be regional stud stations and are a significant economic force in racing as an industry.

The second is genetics. In animals bred intensively by humans there is something called popular sire syndrome. Dogs, horses and even cows have examples. Lets use an example. SireX was a superior animal and carries excellent dominant genes A & B. Everyone wants these genes so much of the next generation is sired by him. But he also carries one copy of a very bad recessive gene C. Since he only had one copy, and it wasn't a commonly found gene it was no problem .. for him. Since the gene wasn't common, it isn't even a problem for most of his offspring. But now realize there are so many offspring that half-siblings are likely to be mated (and this is common again in livestock and competitive dog/horse breeding). When that happens 1/4 of the offspring will now have two copies of this really bad gene C. Even 3/4 related grandchildren breeding carries a a significant statistical risk of a double gene C, when before the popular sire, getting an double gene C in any cross was very, very rare. Oooops. And it may take a while to realize that and by the time you do, gene C is now a common gene. Then you have to go back to those regional lines to outcross to horses without gene C and repair the gene pool. Sure some of the offspring won't have good gene A or B, but if condition C keeps them from racing anyway it is the only way. While the science is harder in dogs (and cows are going high tech), horses still seem to work on the pattern of first inbreeding to get gene A & B, then out cross to limit any unfortunate gene C's that came along. I have done test breedings in two species and worked with both researchers and other breeders in identifying "gene C carriers" and even which sire they may have rooted from.

(end long boring part)

Short version: Limiting sires limits the number of people benefiting from booking and breeding fee income and also limits the gene pool. As an industry, the live cover requirement promotes both the spread of the economy and the gene pool, by intentional design.

My ideal then would be different. I would prefer the breedings rate a pedigree value called COI (coefficient of inbreeding) and use that as part of the % the game assigns to creating a "dud" offspring. In real breeding that is usually why! It is fine if the game doesn't. But this really would be one legitimate reason for the lower quality studs, and to make sure some are in the mix after a few game generations as well. The game forces the other stud farms to exist already.


Last edited by Hechicera on Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:57 pm
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:20 pm
Posts: 544
Location: Norway
Post Re: Stallions
Well written and very interesting. In trotting that is most popular here in Norway artificial breeding and also frozen sperma is used a lot. I did wonder why that was not the case for the thoroughbred.

Another thing in trotting is that the stallions often keep their racing careers going while they stand at stud.

But lots of good point and I hope the COI could be implemented in the game.


Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:44 pm
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 3:50 pm
Posts: 940
Post Re: Stallions
Hi Mark, is there any changed being planned to the breeding side?

I think the biggest part of the breeding industry in racing is the pursuit of great stallions who can produce great horses and great future stallions. With the number of stallions in the game and the low number of yearlings they produce a season this isnt really applicable in the game, which makes me feel the tame is missing out on a great opportunity to encapsulate that pursuit of great stallions.

However, I'm aware many disagree and are happy with the current number of stallions. So perhaps an option that givese the player some say over the number of stallions in their game would be good. If the breeding days could be reduced further from 7, and then maybe something like how we can choose the percentage of foreign horses, or the nationality spread in so6 to determine the number of stallions in the game would work well if this is at all possible?

Thanks


Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:09 pm
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